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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:46 am 
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Hi Guys,

I was reading the old post regarding the situation with oil based and yellowing, i am aware it was an EU ruling and out of the control of paint manufacturers, i have tried a few different water based glosses now and am not amused no matter what you do it turns out pants never mind the 3 tins minimum instead of 1 of the good stuff, water based its useless apart from being white. What i really want to know is most posts say issue with INTERIOR GLOSS yellowing, so does this mean that EXTERIOR GLOSS WONT YELLOW AND STILL THE SAME STINKY SMOOTH LUSH GOODNESS AS PRE VOC RULING. What was taken out to make such a change exactly no one says if it was Turps White Spirit or a mix of solvents, if you know this could you not add them back yourself . Finally when we leave the EU do we get good paint again.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:56 am 
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Water-based gloss is still not quite on a par with oil, but it's so close.

There is far more emphasis on preparation and brush choice these days to get it to work. The bulk of people slating WB paints, have yet to crack the method required to get it right, as it really does require you to learn to paint all over again in many respects. Damp cloths, damp filaments, viscosity, conditioners, temperature, humidity all play their part; and of course the correct brush. There's no magic brush, but all synthetics are not created equally, and a bit of trial and error is required.

Attitude to new developments is also important. One decorator I know won't have WB paint at any price, and does the "My customers prefer oil" routine. OK, but will the same customers be happy when their wood has gone yellow in a matter of weeks? His other line is "I just can't be bothered with the hassle of that stuff". That last one puzzled me TBH, as WB is actually better in practically every respect, and so much easier to apply, doesn't kill you or the HO with fumes, doesn't take 2 days to dry, etc etc. What hassle? An extra coat? It goes on far quicker so the time isn't a lot different anyway.

I've been working with a couple of other decs this week. They are part of a building firm, and normally use white oil gloss on their work, but we're all using Armstead QD Satin on this house, and they can't seem to get it to work. They're not bad tradesmen; it's just that they're not used to water-based paint. Not a pop at the OP by the way :thumbright:

There are (were) a good few pro decorators on here who were die-hard oilheads, who have all moved over to WB, and I bet given the choice, none would switch back to oil. Personally, if they fixed oil tomorrow, I'd stay with WB.

Resistance is futile. :salute:

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:55 am 
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Oil-based yellowing doesn't seem anywhere near as bad as it used to. This week I am decorating a spare bedroom which is adjacent to a landing I decorated back in May. There is no difference between the white of the paint on the bedroom door frame and the white on the landing side of the frame. (Dulux Trade oil-based Satinwood.)

The only problem I have with water-based is the often-needed extra coat. An extra coat in a small bedroom isn't too much of a problem, but what about when it's a hall, stairs and landing with 8+ doors and all the stair woodwork? The woodwork on landings is often quite yellow because of age and/or lack of natural light so I assume they would definitely need three coats.

Customers seem to expect woodwork to yellow over time and because it is a gradual process they don't really notice it until it is time to decorate again (problems with early post-2010 paint notwithstanding). I haven't received any complaints about early yellowing and most of my business is repeat business so I am sure I would have heard if it was a problem.

I think dynamod is correct when pointing out how tradesmen are reluctant to switch but I also think oil-based has improved significantly since 2010 and the improvement won't be noticed by those who are now fully water-based as they haven't used it for a long time.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:31 am 
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That Armstead is nice gear Dyna but it's still tacky after 10 days in my house. I am a bit stingy with the heating though.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:33 am 
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Shouldn't be. The stuff I did last night is bone dry. :scratch: Turn the heating on ya tight wad. :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:35 pm 
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Morgie007 wrote:
Hi Guys,

I was reading the old post regarding the situation with oil based and yellowing, i am aware it was an EU ruling and out of the control of paint manufacturers, i have tried a few different water based glosses now and am not amused no matter what you do it turns out pants never mind the 3 tins minimum instead of 1 of the good stuff, water based its useless apart from being white. What i really want to know is most posts say issue with INTERIOR GLOSS yellowing, so does this mean that EXTERIOR GLOSS WONT YELLOW AND STILL THE SAME STINKY SMOOTH LUSH GOODNESS AS PRE VOC RULING. What was taken out to make such a change exactly no one says if it was Turps White Spirit or a mix of solvents, if you know this could you not add them back yourself . Finally when we leave the EU do we get good paint again.


I think it's lack of ultraviolet which light turns it yellow..How many times have you seen exterior gloss turn yellow.I've been a decorator for over twenty years & i've never seen it go yellow on exteriors.Have you?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 12:50 pm 
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:withstupid:

Spot on. Lack of UV is a major issue.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:05 pm 
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Water based glosses are no where near the level of oil. You can get away with the water based satins, eggshells but if you’re after a high sheen gloss then oil is the daddy. People (including me) are using Johnstones Aqua and its one of the closest to oil I’ve tried but even that discolours being a hybrid so what is the point?! It also ruins brushes. The only upside to it is drying time. I’ve tried lots of water based alternatives with new brushes, additives, methods, etc and I’m fed up. They are very poor. Unless you’re spraying them you’ll never get the finish of oil. I am also fed up with the fact that water based needs 3/4 coats for a finish that still is knowhere near 1 oil undercoat/1 oil gloss! Pathetic.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:10 pm 
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Morgie007 wrote:
I was reading the old post regarding the situation with oil based and yellowing, i am aware it was an EU ruling and out of the control of paint manufacturers, i have tried a few different water based glosses now and am not amused no matter what you do it turns out pants never mind the 3 tins minimum instead of 1 of the good stuff, water based its useless apart from being white. What i really want to know is most posts say issue with INTERIOR GLOSS yellowing, so does this mean that EXTERIOR GLOSS WONT YELLOW AND STILL THE SAME STINKY SMOOTH LUSH GOODNESS AS PRE VOC RULING. What was taken out to make such a change exactly no one says if it was Turps White Spirit or a mix of solvents, if you know this could you not add them back yourself . Finally when we leave the EU do we get good paint again.


Troll alert me thinks.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 1:37 pm 
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I gave it the benefit if the doubt, but I suspect you're right.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:04 pm 
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How can you tell?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:18 pm 
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As a first post, it seemed a bit OTT I thought. No products, no methods, no references to anything specific.

May be wrong though.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:19 pm 
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dynamod wrote:
I gave it the benefit if the doubt, but I suspect you're right.


It must be one of the few times, I read a comment as always briefly, and then I read it again x2. Dubman and you answered the obvious question but having read it again ... ehmmm what was the question?

@Tom. It is a rant with everything and the kitchen sink thrown in. Main aim to dig at the EU, and no obvious painting and decorating question. My rant next just to explain the pint. Bummer, I am a smoker and I have no problem with smoking not permitted in pubs and even more so in restaurants. It has actually got better since plastic bags cost money (Scotland was ahead in that from England), there are fewer bags around the place and that can only be a good thing[*]. Nothing we can do though about the chavs who get their food from fecking Mcdonalds and chuck the empties out of the window.

--
[*] Not to mention the Tesco bug stuck on the catalytic converter ... despite having removed the thicker stuff, it still smells a year later.

EDIT: The "pint" is the "point" :huray:


Last edited by OchAye on Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:20 pm 
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dynamod wrote:
As a first post, it seemed a bit OTT I thought. No products, no methods, no references to anything specific.

May be wrong though.


Exactly that! You replied whilst I was writing (and you read it a lot better than me I think).


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:51 pm 
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Maybe the op is BoJo?



For this message the author Tom d'Angler has received gratitude : OchAye
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