Now working out whats the best option to wire in the new kitchen sockets, and want to have a good idea of whats needed...

So below is the new kitchen plan, and marked on the first picture in red is the current plug socket and ring main supply to it... in blue are the appliances i need wired in and the extra sockets i want (all appliances are built in items... so ill need sockets to them, not sure if built in appliances need sockets or FCBs??)

Has anyone got a best solution to minimize chasing in the walls... for power to the opposite side of the room, i assume its a case of going up and over the ceiling in the roof space??

No rush as i know you all have a lot better things to do than listen to my waffle...

On the first picture, theres a dishwasher and washing machine side by side, then a 13amp electric oven and a gas hob that needs a socket for the ignition side of it... and i want an extra socket above the worktop for the microwave to plug in.

On the bottom picture, which currently has no sockets, theres a fridge at one end, and a freezer at the other, and i want 2 double sockets above the worktop.

The first picture. You can wire the 1st socket by going horizontal but because you are wanting additional power all over the kitchen I personally would go straight down underneath the worktop and clip cables along the bottom and back up again to where you want them.

See here about permittable zones
http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/routing_a_cable.htm

Make sure you have all sockets the ring. Don't spur off spur off spur. Also the intergated appliances make sure the isolation for them are accessible.

This work is notifiable and should be done by somebody qualified or building control informed.

Yeah an electrician is doing the wiring when he comes to add my new consumer unit, its a friend of a work relation... he said work out what i want, do the donkey work ie chasing into the walls and he will come sort the wiring, so im just trying to work out what i need and where...

With the appliances, will i have to have an isolation switch for each item, if so im gonna have switch boxes everywhere...

You really cannot proceed like that.

Unless this friend of a work relation is prepared to lie for you on official documentation, i.e. commit a criminal offence, then he must be the one who does all this design work.

There's no problem whatsoever with you doing the donkey work of chasing walls and chopping out holes, but that MUST be done only under his supervision and direction.



What about a grid with switch and fuse modules supplying appliances from a radial circuit via flex outlet plates or 15A BS546 sockets?

There are many different ways to supply appliances, but I fear you may have left it too late to learn enough about them to be able to do your own design work. Which, it should be stressed, realistically needs to comply with BS 7671.

As for switches everywhere, repeat the following until you stop regarding that as unacceptable:

"A kitchen is a place of work"

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I'm sorry - I can't come in to work today, the voices are telling me to stay at home and clean the guns.

.

Why is he doing anything wrong to need to lie?? Im not gonna just start hammering into the walls just yet, if i wasnt the sort to pre-plan things i wouldnt be asking on here for general advice...

...as its not someone i personally know, i thought if i did my homework, and try to be as accurate as possible, it would save him time, and save the need for him to keep coming round before he is really needed.

At the minute, he has just asked me to work out WHERE i want sockets to be, as he doesnt know where anything will be placed as its a empty room. I thought if i worked out where i wanted them, and where i would need chasing, i could then just show him for the nod of approval and then i have a plan to follow when cutting into the walls with minimal disruption for him???

My thoughts was to come down on the first picture from the original socket, to a socket behind the appliance directly below it, then horizontally accross to the cooker and back in the same trunking to the appliance on the LH side, then up to the socket above it, and then back up the wall into the roof so i could drop down on the other side... where its a simple straight drop down to the socket then appliance below, back up along in the ceiling, and back down at the next socket.

But now im trying to work out the fact the appliances need a remote switch, but that means more switches, i could have a switch next to the plug sockets controlling a FCU for the appliance below i guess, just seems like the kitchen wall will soon become a long strip of switches.

I know i could just leave it all to him, its just im interested in how why what and when... its the technician in me, i was born to take things apart and figure out whats in them... since buying a house im doing the same

Because he will have to sign a piece of paper to say that he was responsible for the design, installation and testing of it all.



He'll have to sign documents to say that he did it all. What if he isn't happy with the advice you get here?



He really is needed now.

I being the person responsible for the Design, Construction, Inspection & Testing of the electrical
installation (as indicated by my signature below), particulars of which are described above, having
exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the Design, Construction, Inspection & Testing,
hereby CERTIFY that the said work for which I have been responsible is to the best of my knowledge
and belief in accordance with BS 7671:2008, amended to .............(date) except for the departures, if
any, detailed as follows.

The design is being done now.

He must be the one to do it.



So how will he know if your decisions on placement will comply with 522.2, 522.3 etc?



Fair enough, if you've considered and discounted the use of a grid.



Then you really really really must go off and spend time learning about the regulations, learning about installation techniques, learning about design principles etc, so that you are genuinely competent to do this work.

Trying to grope your way to a safe and compliant installation via questions and answers here is not the way to go about it.

USEFUL REFERENCE BOOKS

IMPORTANT NOTE - when buying books from Amazon, seek confirmation that they are the latest versions.


http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/027644079X

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0007231938


This one is only available second-hand now, and will be out of date in some respects, e.g. cable colours, bathroom zones etc, but will still be a useful primer on the basic structure of house wiring systems:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_w_h ... &x=22&y=21


. . . . .


The next 3 are essential.


http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0863418546

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0863418627 or http://www.theiet.org/publishing/books/ ... dition.cfm

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0953788555 or http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/TLGUIDE.html


. . . . .


The next three are pretty handy guides, the Amicus ones being small enough to fit in your toolbox.:


http://www.jmtrainingshop.co.uk/partPBook.php or http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0955479304

http://www.technicaltrainingsolutions.c ... ions.shtml

http://www.technicaltrainingsolutions.c ... ions.shtml


. . . . .


I would strongly recommend a copy of the Wiring Regulations, and also (but not as strongly) copies of the Guidance Notes, but bear in mind there are new versions coming out in 2008, and not all of these are available just yet – pay close attention, and don't buy the 16th Edition versions by mistake.


http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0863418449 or http://www.theiet.org/publishing/books/ ... dition.cfm


http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0863418554

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0863418562

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0863418570 or http://www.theiet.org/publishing/books/ ... dition.cfm

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0863418589

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0852969937

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0863418600

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0863418619

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0863416160



http://www.amazon.co.uk/Electrical-Inst ... 0863415504 or http://www.theiet.org/publishing/books/ ... -guide.cfm



The Electrician's Guide shown above is a good explanation of the regs, but if you fancy one with a bit more of the electrical engineering theory behind it all, I can recommend this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0852962371 or http://www.theiet.org/publishing/books/ ... /19253.cfm

It is a commentary on the 16th, not the 17th, and the new one will be out soon, but if you can find a cheap second hand copy it will still be useful and informative, as the underlying theory never changes.


USEFUL WEBSITES

TLC Cable Calculator: here

Kevin Boone's Cable Selection Guide:here

Kevin Boone's Cable Calculator: here

Kevin Boone's useful basic guides:

http://www.kevinboone.com/electricity.html
http://www.kevinboone.com/domesticinstallations.html

(Disclaimer - I am not Kevin Boone, nor am I in love with him - I just found his site one time and thought it was pretty useful).


THE LAW

You do need to know this:

http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/forum ... t6296.html


PLAN B

Click.

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I'm sorry - I can't come in to work today, the voices are telling me to stay at home and clean the guns.

.

Bad day

But cheers for the grid idea, all the switches in one neat location... perfect!

So with regard to this grid system, which ive now been reading about... despite the fact some say you shouldnt use 20amp grid switches on a 32amp circuit and the like..

How do these grid systems work? I know i cant wire them etc etc, i just want the basics if its at all possible?

I assume you would simply add the grid switches into the ring main like you would a normal socket... but then each switch would then have a dedicated spur wired off to a outlet behind each appliance. So that on the one big switch plate (i would need 6 switches) that each switch would control its own dedicated socket behind the appliance...

If so while the switch layout would be nice and neat, it would involve a lot more wiring for each of the switches spurs??

I also see that you can get fuse modules, instead of using them, could you just use FCUs behind the appliances for those that have flex wiring, and normal sockets for those that have fused plugs fitted? As this would save having a 12 gang grid switch, with 6 switches and 6 fused units in it.

Might be more work chasing the walls like this, but i think it would be a neater install than having a seperate switch above every appliance, as the kitchen is only small but has a lot of appliances crammed in.

Ban-all-sheds your a star, im loving this grid idea now... Next problem seems to be finding nice light switches, and normal plug sockets that match the grid switch sockets in brushed metal finish with black buttons

And MK appear to do them to match there other sockets so jobs a good un!

Some bedtime reading for you Thomas