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 Post subject: Re: Oak Worktop??
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 7:57 pm 
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Kev888 wrote:
Rorschach wrote:
Do they ever come with a radius on the edge?
I had one, which was why i was wondering; the radius was about 1/4" on the top edges, enough to look wrong at the join, so faff ensued. But TBH I haven't done enough real-wood tops to know how (un)common this is - it sounds like the OP's is square though, so if a radius is unusual then no worries.


Not something I had seen before, but you learn something everyday, bet it was a faff doing that. :thumbright:


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 Post subject: Re: Oak Worktop??
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 8:22 pm 
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never seen radius on solid tops. unless its been put on after instalation by the fitter

ya do end up with a slight radius from sanding em up like. nowt massive though



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 Post subject: Re: Oak Worktop??
PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 11:11 pm 
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I'm glad to hear this is unusual; it seemed daft to me at the time, since a radius is obviously easy to add, but less easy to take away and make good afterwards.

FWIW I've just done a bit of poking about on the net and apparently it is a thing, at least sometimes; some sellers suggest a <10mm 'hockey stick' mitre joint (not my terminology) is acceptable in such cases. Though I struggle to see this; a 45degree edge still seems like it would be a barrier to expansion however long/deep it is.

But I don't want to de-rail the OP's thread, as it seems he has a square edge.

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 Post subject: Re: Oak Worktop??
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 12:01 am 
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Rorschach wrote:
Do they ever come with a radius on the edge?

Yes. Sometimes. In which case it becomes necessary to make a miniature mason's mitre. TBH, though, a square edge worktop with a butt joint and "dogbone fasteners" to pull it in and a few dry, well sanded biscuits (to keep the joint aligned vertically - these need to permit some movement so glue is a no-no) works well. Jigs? I've never needed them on Belfasts other than for the falling drainer grooves - the drip groove can be routed using a "jig" comprising three pieces of 2 x 1in PSE softwood pinned to the underside of the worktop and having a guide bush fitted to the router (in lieu of using a fence). Same goes for the Belfast sink cut-out - rough-out with a circular saw with a jigsaw for the corners, then rout the recess in 6 to 8mm stages using a guide bush and a reasonably large diameter straight cutter (1/2in is really a bit puny IMHO - I prefer 20 to 30mm). The suggestion to use a batten for extra support is OK, but if the worktop is handled carefully by two people it generally isn't an issue providing it is supported properly throughout.

In terms of finish, oak is particularly vulnerable to black staining if it comes into contact with water and unprotected steel or iron, so pre-sealing of all surfaces is a must. I'd recommend at least three coats before installation - so a bit more than just "slap a bit of oil on"! When oiling anything always, but always, open out the scrunched-up rags at the end of the session and lay them outside on earth or concrete. This is because most oils contain a percentage of boiled linseed oil in theior formulation and it cures in air with an exothermic reaction. Or in other words it gets hot. So hot that a scrumched-up oil soaked rag can smoulder for hours then catch fire. That's why you open them out flat and stick them outside after use. Decorators suppliers can supply cotton rag in bundles.

One itt;e trick I do employ is to coat the underside of the worktop around the sink opening (as well as where there are any drillings such as for pipework) with wood hardener (e.g. Bonda Wood Hardener) before oiling. It effectively converts the timber into impervious plastic (and in nay case it's never seen)

lake wrote:
The up stand which is also oak is 18mm thick and 80mm high.

Not sure that I can actually screw it down to the units as there is no where to do so??? Haven't ever fitted the make before and it is the first time I have had to 'scribe' the front of the units to the floor???? There is no leveling at the front of the units and it is on an uneven stone tile floor.

Rip down the worktops to width (take the excess off the backs) before installation. Screw the upstands to the backs of the worktops from the underside before fixing. This makes it awkward where the upstand crosses the corner joint. An alternative is to biscuit or dowel the upstands into position - but not across a joint where some form of sliding screw fixing is required (to allow for differential movement). Surprised that there is no levelling. Does that mean the units are on pre-made plinths? If so furniture wedges will be required to level up the plinths which may need to be bracketed and fixed down to the floor before installing the cabinets.

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fin wrote:
also a track saw helps for cutting the tops to length. low tooth blade and sand up the edges can get em like glass.


Do you mean high tooth blade?

Personally I'd use a lower tooth count (28 tooth or lower on a 160/165mm blade) for the rip cuts and a higher (40 to 48 tooth on a 160/165mm blade) for the cross cuts. Too high a tooth count in ripping will result in scorching and slow cutting

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 Post subject: Re: Oak Worktop??
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 6:35 pm 
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Thanks for all the great advice, it is so very helpful of you all and Kev888 there is no de-railment of the thread as I am learning from each and every post :thumbright:

So I have cut the worktop and it is not too bad ( I did put the 'drip channel' in )

Image

But I do have a problem! :shock:

On the butt joint ( I have cut for 3 bolts and 3 biscuits ) there are 'gaps'! :cb

The 'gap' is not along the whole 620mm (well 617mm as I have left a 3mm expansion gap) it looks more 'wavy'.

It is less than a playing card but more than a cigarette paper. It looks worst in the image (old phone camera and shaky hands)

Image

When I put the 'joint' together and shine a torch from under neath I can see the light....in places.

I cant see this pulling in with the bolts....but maybe it would??

What would you say is my best move next?
Leave it as I could make it worst?
Run an electric plane along it, removing 0.2mm? (IF I could do this)
Run a router along it, removing 0.5mm? (IF I could do this)

Or?


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 Post subject: Re: Oak Worktop??
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 6:41 pm 
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aye ive had that. i ran my planer over it to neaten it up. then bolted the joint up and sanded it.



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 Post subject: Re: Oak Worktop??
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 6:48 pm 
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Thanks fin

The only planer I have is this one

https://www.screwfix.com/p/triton-tcmpl-1-5mm-compact-palm-planer-240v/7801r

which is quite short ( it can handle the 40mm oak, as I used it to get the 3mm expansion gap after scribing to the walls)

Do you think I could use it to just take off a bit?


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 Post subject: Re: Oak Worktop??
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 7:03 pm 
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J & K, do you mean don't use glue on the butt joint or just in the 3 biscuit cut outs?


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 Post subject: Re: Oak Worktop??
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 7:09 pm 
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should do the job ya only need to give it a little tickle owa like.

and aye just float the biscuits no glue



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 Post subject: Re: Oak Worktop??
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 7:35 pm 
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Thanks fin :thumbright:


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 Post subject: Re: Oak Worktop??
PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 9:46 pm 
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lake wrote:
J & K, do you mean don't use glue on the butt joint or just in the 3 biscuit cut outs?

Yes. I sand the biscuits so that they don't swell and lock too readily (to allow movement), Fin answered it :thumbright:

For minor adjustments a sharp hand plane is infinitely better (more controllable, capable of taking a far thinner cut) than a power planes or sander. Personal preference based on a lot of years experience of both tools

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 Post subject: Re: Oak Worktop??
PostPosted: Wed May 23, 2018 5:00 pm 
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indeed j&k is right on the handplane being the ideal tool if you have a sharp enough one.


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