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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:36 pm 
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My Mum's just moved and her new place is in need of some love. Among other things I'll be painting her kitchen and bathroom and, in line with everything else, I'm trying to do it on a tight budget. As such, I want to use some nice paint I have at home, although I'm concerned that it's not entirely appropriate for the tasks at hand.

(Disclaimer: I know bugger all about paint, save for that which I've read online)

I've got a load of spare Laura Ashley matt emulsion and a load of Dulux Authentic Origins matt emulsion. The colours are ideal and I've got almost a full 5 litres of each, but they're both quite soft, flat, chalky matt emulsions and I *think* that something with a sheen is better for bathrooms and kitchens where they may meet moisture and/or need wiping down.

Now a few years ago when I moved house, I had a problem wall to paint and ended up buying Zinser Gardz. This was amazing stuff and made what had been a nighmare job an absolute breeze. Anyway, whilst researching problems painting and before eventually coming up with Gardz as the solution, I read an awful lot about various paints, primers, additives and techniques. One thing I read was about adding Gardz to matt emulsion. I can't remember why this was being discussed or what problem was looking to be solved, but I do remember that Gardz was being added to fortify the paint in some way. And for some reason I remember that you can add gardz to emulsion and it doesn't cause problems separating because it's designed to bind with and bond to things. I've still got just under half of a 5l tin of gardz left.

Sooooo ...?

Is there any merit in trying to use Gardz to make a matt emulsion more durable? I remember when I used straight gardz on the problem wall I mentioned, it did leave it with a smooth sheen to be painted over. Perhaps mixing some in to the paints I have would impart some of this sheen to the matt finish & make it better for bathroom / kitchen use? Or is there a known additive that achieves this? Or maybe this just isn't possible and I'm peeing in the wind?

Any thoughts, experiences or advice would be greatly appreciated!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:26 am 
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Paint is cheap, time and preparation are not. Buy new paint, do it properly :thumbright:



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:37 am 
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I wouldn't use Gardz as there are better (ie more task-specific) products available, specifically emulsion glaze or durable emulsions. Some glaze coats to consider are:

Ratcliffes Emulsion Glaze Coat

Johnstones Trade Heavy Duty Glaze

Dacrylate Clear Acrylic Glaze

These three are more suitable than Gardz, as is Polyvine Decorators Varnish. It used to be available at Homebase and B&Q I believe. Portaflek glaze was the single most bulletproof clear coat I ever used but never used it indoors. It was water-based and pretty odourless from what I remember of it, but not sure if it's still made. All these with the exception of Polyvine may change the colour of the finish ever so slightly.

Re-coating in a durable emulsion would be the easiest option. Crown Clean Extreme, Johnstones Durable Matt etc are all good. Most manufacturers do a durable version of their matt finish.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:38 pm 
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Rorschach wrote:
Paint is cheap


Whilst you're undoubtedly correct, my wife seems to make it a personal mission in life to challenge this notion. Actually, it's not the paint that she manages to pay large sums for, but I think more the tins which house the paint. I'm pretty well convinced that she could watch you take a £20 tin of crown emulsion, pour it into a Laura Ashley tin (or indeed any tin with a name she likes or some kind of flowery marketeering w*nk) and she'd dig deep into that pit of misery and financial ruin she calls a purse ...

dynamod wrote:
I wouldn't use Gardz as there are better (ie more task-specific) products available, specifically emulsion glaze or durable emulsions. Some glaze coats to consider are ...


Wow, loads of information, much appreciated. I didn't actually realise there were products which you could use as a sort of varnish, but I think this has pretty much solved my problem. I've traced a local source of Dacrylate Clear Acrylic Glaze and for £19, I think 2.5l should cover the whole thing. I'd actually laboured under the misapprehension that the kitchen was huge and the bathroom a decent size too, but once you remove the areas taken up by tiles and units of one sort or another, there really isn't that much wall left to paint. I do suspect, however, I won't viewing it quite so fondly one saturday afternoon once I've hopefully finished masking off the fiddly areas and cupboards, sinks, cills, etc!

I really wish I could remember why people were talking about mixing gardz with emulsion as it just doesn't quite make sense to me. Maybe it made the emulsion adhere a little better? But why not just put a layer of gardz on first? For love nor money I can't find the thread in question, although it was about 3 years ago now when I was in need of Gardz, but I also remember they were proper painters discussing it. Bah, I've got a garage filled with half used cans of paint - I think I'll take one and mix in a little gardz and see what on earth it does!

Again, thanks for the guidance!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:51 am 
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UPDATE


I experimented by adding some gardz to regular emulsion to see what would happen and how it would affect the end result. I started with tiny amounts, but it was difficult to be accurate so I ended up using a ratio of 4:1 paint to gardz. Basically I added 500ml of gardz to 2 litres of paint for a 20% concentration.

The result is a significant strengthening of the emulsion once it has dried on the wall.

I painted a test strip of the regular emulsion beside a strip of the gardz fortified emulsion and, once dried, they both have a very similar appearance. I'd expected the modified paint to have a lighter appearance given gardz has a milky colour when wet but, to my untrained eye, I couldn't notice a difference. A professional painter may notice a difference in shade, or it might be visible if one layer is applied on top of the other, but for me the only difference I did notice was that the gardz fortified paint seemed a little thinner to apply. I don't think I'd have noticed it so much using a roller, but using a paint brush it just felt slightly looser.

Once the paints had dried I simply tested by wiping them both down with a wet cloth. The untreated emulsion came off on the cloth very easily when wiped. The gardz treated emulsion withstood a much fiercer scrub before it began to show on the cloth. I'd certainly feel confident that I could wipe it clean without any residue.

I don't know whether this would leave a regular chalky emulsion strong enough for use in a bathroom or kitchen. I think that it *might* and I may even give it a go when I do my own kitchen in the summer. But where it will really plan to use it is when I freshen up my little girls room. It's all soft pastel yellows and pinks - lovely when done, but a magnet for each and every scuff, scrape, pencil, pen or bluetac mark. I wonder if throwing some gardz in the remaining paint before I give it a fresh coat will make it a little more resilient? If not, I know it'll clean a little better.

Disclaimer: I only tried this on one old can of crown emulsion. (Is it just me, or does everyone have *that* shelf in the garage with endless half used cans of paint?) I could have just hit lucky with that one paint. Also, I didn't try any other ratios, so whilst 4:1 may have worked in this instance, it may be overkill or ineffective in other scenarios. I just thought it was an interesting way to make some old cans of paint that were gathering dust a little more useful using something I had lying around.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:35 pm 
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As already mentioned, polyvine dead flat decorator's varnish is exceptional over emulsion.

It's my "go to" glaze when someone wants the best protection.



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