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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:51 pm 
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Hello,
I'm about to paint all of the exterior trim of a house and have many surfaces that need covering:
All existing painted trim - black gloss, plastic guttering (painted and bare black), iron guttering (black gloss) and some new, bare wood.
Firstly the final top coat I plan to use is Little Greene (Aquamarine colour) and it comes in oil and water based eggshell. Haven't chosen which one, but am inclined to go with oil. Any views or opinions welcomed.
Secondly, I will need a good exterior primer that I can apply over all the different surfaces to be painted. After researching a bit, the best I have come across is Zinser Bullseye 123 plus. Any views or opinions welcomed. I was originally going to just get the white version and give everything 2 coats, but the chap at the Decorator centre said he could tint it for me. Would that be better? If so, how does the whole tinted primer idea work and which colour should I go for? The nearest match to my top coat? Also, the Bullseye 123 plus is water based. Is that ok for going over the existing solvent gloss? Will it affect the choice of top coat? ie. will oil based eggshell be ok on it, or do I then need to use water based eggshell?

Maybe tinted Bullseye 123+ followed by little Greene intelligent water based exterior would be a safer bet and easier.
I know there's the miracle, self priming All Coat, but the closest colour match is difficult, as it's noticeably different.
Any thoughts on these confusing matters will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:59 am 
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Personally I'd use 123 not the plus. Sticks better in these situations, easier to level and doesn't form as much suction.
You could always use the coverstain. It's their best exterior primer. What I like is that you can sand it flat fairly soon after.
123 on the pipes though, easier application.

You can use any system on top.


Last edited by Desmondo15 on Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:02 am 
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Ps my gut feeling is not to tint the coverstain - it may affect how well it sands after (not sure)
123 tinting is fine.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 8:38 am 
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Thanks. Interesting you favour 123 over the plus. I had been led to believe the plus was an upgrade/improvement in formula and had better "sticking" abilities. I've used both indoors and to my novice diy experience, couldn't find a great deal of difference, other than the plus seemed a bit thinner. What do think of Little green - oil or water in terms of durability under really hot sun and cold westerly winds, particular near the barge board ridges (not keen on getting up there too often on a long ladder!)


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:32 pm 
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For adhesion I use 123.

Plus is a better stain blocker in comparison.

Used the wb exterior in LG and that felt nice but haven't been back to see how it's fairing up.

I think oil has the edge with most deccies, personally I find it a pain.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:59 pm 
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exterior oil is favoured by me anyway.

Regardless of the primer, any loose/damaged/peeling paint must be removed (sanded back to sound) and then cleaned and any dodgy/rotten wood sorted/filled before starting.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:54 pm 
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wine~o wrote:
exterior oil is favoured by me anyway.

Regardless of the primer, any loose/damaged/peeling paint must be removed (sanded back to sound) and then cleaned and any dodgy/rotten wood sorted/filled before starting.


LG oil?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:57 pm 
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Desmondo15 wrote:
wine~o wrote:
exterior oil is favoured by me anyway.

Regardless of the primer, any loose/damaged/peeling paint must be removed (sanded back to sound) and then cleaned and any dodgy/rotten wood sorted/filled before starting.


LG oil?


Never used little greene so can't comment. Just oil based in general for exteriors.

EDIT... OOOooops. should have read the title. :hiding:

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:15 am 
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Little Greene do produce an exterior oil

https://www.littlegreene.com/paint/finish/toms-oil-eggshell

they also do a water based version. There's so much conflicting opinions on oil or water, but very little on a comparison of the two. In general oil versions tend to require more care and skill when applying, as they show up brush marks and gumm up brushes quite quickly. Also, the drying time is longer. Most of the finish won't be very noticeable, as the house's wooden trim and gutters are high up. I'm more concerned with durability. Don't want to get that high up too often, particularly if a load of prepping is involved. One thing I have heard regarding oil is using Floterol additive to make it flow easier and extend the opening time.


The reason I'm now thinking about water based is there are so many small fiddly bits to do around the rafter edges and gutter clips, I think it may be easier and the finish there won't be noticeable.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:31 pm 
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seneca5 wrote:
Little Greene do produce an exterior oil

https://www.littlegreene.com/paint/fini ... l-eggshell

they also do a water based version. There's so much conflicting opinions on oil or water, but very little on a comparison of the two. In general oil versions tend to require more care and skill when applying, as they show up brush marks and gumm up brushes quite quickly. Also, the drying time is longer. Most of the finish won't be very noticeable, as the house's wooden trim and gutters are high up. I'm more concerned with durability. Don't want to get that high up too often, particularly if a load of prepping is involved. One thing I have heard regarding oil is using Floterol additive to make it flow easier and extend the opening time.

The reason I'm now thinking about water based is there are so many small fiddly bits to do around the rafter edges and gutter clips, I think it may be easier and the finish there won't be noticeable.


I have not used Little Greene anything but my first impression is that you got all your information mixed up at random. AFAIK oil based paints give the longer open time whilst normal water based do not. With neither paint you go back half an hour later and touch it without leaving brush marks. Floetrol (I had to google it) is for water based. Clogging of brushes is/was an issue with water based paints esp. hybrid paints. I personally would not use additives on an exterior paint, esp. if I wanted it to last as long as possible.

Oil based takes longer to dry. True! Do you think you will go round your gutters and everything else twice in one day so the drying time is an issue?

=================================

Should you/could you post some photos of what you have to do, esp. of the detail of having to paint the gutter brackets. Will the brackets be black against a white facia panel for example?



For this message the author OchAye has received gratitude : seneca5
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:16 pm 
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You're right! Reading back it was meant to be the other way round, well spotted. Also, I meant to say Owatrol rather than Flotarol. What I didn't know was is that additives reduce the longevity of the top coat. Interesting. If I work from a small kettle with lid and just keep adding when finished, it should be easier and less prone to waste.

Very True - I'll be lucky to do half the fiddly bits in one day, so it'll be 2 days first coat. Fortunatley the primer is a bit more forgiving, so not an issue there.


From your experience, which type do you favour - water or oil?


Also, do you have any wisdom regarding suitable primers? I'm down to a choice of two: Bullseye 123 and 123+. Both have advantages over the other 123 and that's been mentioned - 123 is stickier, 123+ covers up the previous coating better. Ideally, I would like both! as they are equally useful features. I'm currently going for 123, as sticking is more important, to stop the paint from peeling and cracking. I could always do another coat, if really needed. Also, having the primer tinted should help a bit.


All really helpful information everyone. Big thanks

will try to get a few pics. At the moment fascia (all), drains and brackets are all black, some are painted, some are black but unpainted. Ideally I'd like to paint everything, as hate the black (previous owner) and the unpainted and gloss blacks are shiny and dull , so uneven colour black everywhere.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:33 pm 
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seneca5 wrote:
You're right! Reading back it was meant to be the other way round, well spotted. Also, I meant to say Owatrol rather than Flotarol. What I didn't know was is that additives reduce the longevity of the top coat. Interesting. If I work from a small kettle with lid and just keep adding when finished, it should be easier and less prone to waste.

For the amount of additive you would have to use to increase the open time, it raises the question why doesn't the manufacturer add those things in the first place. Achieving a longer open time with water based would be a major selling point.

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From your experience, which type do you favour - water or oil?

My question would be different. What finish do you want? Gloss (therefore oil) or something less than gloss. The next question is about expansion and contraction of the materials that is where :dunno: WB maybe more elastic that an oil based paint that forms a hard crust.

I did the facia of my house and a friend's, over 10 years ago. Both took longer to prepare than actually paint. I used Crown trade gloss (oil) and at the time there was no interior and exterior Crown gloss, just one paint. I also used their own combined I think primer/undercoat. So far so good :mrgreen:

Quote:
Also, do you have any wisdom regarding suitable primers? I'm down to a choice of two: Bullseye 123 and 123+. Both have advantages over the other 123 and that's been mentioned - 123 is stickier, 123+ covers up the previous coating better. Ideally, I would like both! as they are equally useful features. I'm currently going for 123, as sticking is more important, to stop the paint from peeling and cracking. I could always do another coat, if really needed. Also, having the primer tinted should help a bit.

In the first instance I would try to stick to a complete system from one company, esp. if they offer any kind of warranty that is worth the paper it is written on. If you are painting plastics and there is no suitable primer fair enough to look elsewhere. If you are painting over previously painted surfaces you do not need a primer but an undercoat and it is best to stick to water or oil undercoat depending on what your top coat will be.

Sorry, I am only a DIYer, and I have mainly if not exclusively used Crown Trade (and I have no shares in the company either).


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:42 am 
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All good points and worth considering. I'm edging slowly towards a water based system of primer/undercoat and top coat. Also, I'd prefer an eggshell above a gloss look and the sheen is the same for both water and oil (20%)


I remember the old solvent interior & exterior gloss. Used to set like a hard plastic coating.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2018 6:54 pm 
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Oil is easier to apply, and in weather conditions like these water based/acrylic/hybrids dry sooo quickly that you daren't pause for breath.

Oil based seems to be longer lasting outdoors in my experience.

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