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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 1:40 pm 
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Hi

The trip switch n my unit is being triggered quite frequently. I've isolated the fault down to the fridge freezer. When all other appliances are turned off the FF still trips the uinit.

I's a 10 year old FF and is one of those American style juggernaughts which has just ended its extended 5 year warranty.

Just wondering if it's economically viable to repair these things or does it need to be replaced with a new one a repair will cost 50% of retail for a new FF


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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 4:20 pm 
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My only simple fix on a similar unit was to replace the starter / capacitor which was quite cheap, anything more is likely expensive and difficult for a DIY job.



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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 8:35 am 
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The main reason for freezers to trip the RCD is because water has got into the mineral insulated heater used for the de-frost process. The replacement unit is not expensive however the work required to change it will vary freezer to freezer.

When I want to repair a small freezer I found there were no companies where I could take the unit to for repair, the only option was to have some one call to repair it on site, as a result it often means a double visit once to find out what is wrong, and again to replace the faulty part once it has arrived. Using dedicated repairers who only work on one make does reduce the chance of a double visit but often more expensive to start with.

In my case the freezer never stopped running, this would likely be due to either faulty thermostat or a loss of gas, and the problem was for me finding out which, a simple thermostat to measure -18 degC were not available in local shops in the end I used one designed to keep my beer warm.

You have a similar problem, most likely it is the defrost heater, but it is a leap of faith to buy one and hope it is that, rather than to test first and be sure, and also to buy one when you have no idea how easy or hard it is going to be to replace.

I am assuming when you say trip switch it is the RCD or RCBO that is tripping.

I looked at the (SAEc) Standard Annual Energy consumption and the way the energy rating is calculated which was a bit of an eye opener. It seems there is not just one calculation, but it takes into account if built in or free standing, if frost free or not, if upright or chest, and the Climate class the latter means a fridge/freezer designed for +16 ~ +43 degsC does not have to be as efficient as one designed for +16 ~ +32 degsC. As a result some of the American style freezers are rather poor compared with those designed for UK.

There is also the fridge/freezer split. The larger the fridge and smaller the freezer is the easier it is for the manufacturer to get his A+ or A++ or even A+++ rating. As a result today manufacturers are making matching pairs rather than American style to get within the ratings. My Samsung freezer has a matching fridge which when placed together look like an American style type.

There has also been a move to inverter control, this is to remove the problems with volt drop taking out the overload, and to stop the huge in-rush on starting in the main, but has also resulted in the fridge and freezer temperatures being independently controlled, in the older units the fridge got a percentage of the freezers cooling and only the freezer was really controlled.

I have last night had a power cut, this morning on returning the power the freezer showed the highest temperature reached so I know if food is likely damaged or not, it showed -12 degC until opening door when it showed temperature at moment of -18 degC. These features are quite new, and clearly important when we get a power cut as not always there when they happen.

So you have to decide if worth repairing? Looking at the information it is claimed that replacing an old unit with new will pay for it's self in 3 years as they are more efficient however this is only true when looking at the cheapest of cheap. As I want safe food I want a freezer which keeps ALL food at -18 degC not just some of the food, only way to ensure ALL food is kept cold is with a frost free freezer, as with a frost free there is a fan to circulate the air so all food at the same temperature. Forget about the problem defrosting that is minor, it's the fact it circulates air except when on de-frost cycle, so all freezer not just near to sensor is at -18 degC. As we move to the more expensive types we also move to inverter driven motors, these often have a 10 year guarantee rather than the 3 to 5 years with cheaper single phase motors. With the inverter motor is three phase although still plugs into a single phase supply, but that's what makes it so much more reliable.

So a good quality unit cost maybe four times the price of the basic unit, so in real terms only worth replacing when they go wrong.

As a quick check I looked at the Samsung with 340 litres fridge and 180 litres freezer free standing and US temperatures in the class type, so the old D better than 1283 kWh/annum, C < 1108, B < 874, A < 641, A+ < 513, A++ < 384, and A+++ < 256 kWh/annum. So you do the maths, at 12p per kWh just over a £100 per year saving at £1000 that's 10 years to break even, not 3 years, and unlikely yours is D rated anyway.

For me easy I have the meters to test the heater, for you price up the heater, then decide if worth the chance.


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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 7:27 pm 
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TigerUK wrote:
Hi

The trip switch n my unit is being triggered quite frequently. I've isolated the fault down to the fridge freezer. When all other appliances are turned off the FF still trips the uinit.

I's a 10 year old FF and is one of those American style juggernaughts which has just ended its extended 5 year warranty.

Just wondering if it's economically viable to repair these things or does it need to be replaced with a new one a repair will cost 50% of retail for a new FF


Whether it's economically viable to repair or not IDK.. might be worth a post on the White goods forum (Google)..

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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 9:22 pm 
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Sadly it probably is NOT worth repairing but I have to agree with Wine~O, as its an appliance you need specialist advice Click here
I would also suggest you identify this "trip switch" of which you speak. Is it an RCD, and RCBO, an MCB? (it makes a great deal of difference, and it will be written on it.)

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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2016 12:38 pm 
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On looking here as random example it would seem the heater costs between £25 and £65, but then it needs fitting.

With any frost free freezer the active components are hidden behind some cover, the idea is that when the de-frost takes place the fan will be inactive so although the active components reach over zero degrees then rise in temperature is only local and does not effect your food, so there is no option, but to surround the active components with a shell of some type.

Since we don't have model numbers it is impossible to tell how hard, and as already said better to look on a dedicated site. This video shows how to replace the thermostat thing it will be a similar process to renew the heater. You decide if it is worth it. I did not bother looking too hard as yours may be a different model, just wanted to show type of job involved. Of course only guessing that it is the heater, but likely if runs for a time before it trips the RCD.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:28 pm 
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over a year gone by and i finally got down to attempting to repair this. I've been quite lazy with this and just turning the power on after the fridge freezer tripped the circuit. I know this is really bad and stupid.

The fridge freezer is actually a samsung rs21 not sure why i called it LG. I think LG and Samsung often look alike and both come from south korea so it wouldn't be a surprise if they use the same factories and designers.

The problems with the RS21 is documented online very well. It has a common fault with the defrost heater. I changed the defrost heater and the RCD trip has all but stopped.

Safety recall link. We did get ours fixed previously, they fit a thermal fuse which cuts down the circuit if it overheats. But there seems to be a common fault still with the defrost heater as it goes down every couple of years. They didn't want to completely redesign it so they just replace the part until the warranty is over. After the warranty they dont have to fix it for free.

Repair link here, shows how to dismantle it and replace parts. Came in really handy as it explains what part does what and what not to touch, and what can be touched/replaced.

By the time I changed over the part the freezer warmed up to -5 /20 (freezer/fridge). I thought the swap had not fixed it because one the way to cooling it had tripped every 4-5 hours or so. One of the fridge lights wasn't working.

Then it slowly got to it's working temp (-20/2) and hasn't tripped since.

I'm hoping this has fixed the problem, only time will tell because prior to the swap of the part the fridge would go for a few weeks without tripping and then other time it would keep tripping constantly 10 times a day.

So I need to give it a couple of months before I assess this.



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:44 pm 
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I think the problem was the defrost heater after all here are my observations when the fridge freezer was tripping the circuit before:

1. The coolest I could set it was -16 freezer, 5 fridge. If I set it any lower than this than the appliance would trip out more frequently. It would still trip at these temp settings but far less frequently than it was colder.

2. After the appliance tripped, I couldn't immediately put it back on I needed to wait a good hour or so before putting the power on. If you attempted to put the power back on immediately after a trip it would trip again almost instantly.

Those two does point to the fact the defrost element was faulty and wasn;t doing the job correctly causing the power to trip.

However the continuity isn't all that bad on the "faulty part" the continunity was 496. Replacement part was 482. This video has information on how to test it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nw8cwE00ZY

I'm not sure if a slightly poorer continuity would mean the part is faulty?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:30 pm 
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You actually mean the resistance of the heater.
The "problem" with that video you linked to is, what he says is not strictly true.
He is only checking the resistance of the heater, all that tells you is..........the resistance of the heater. It doesn't tell you if it has "an earth fault"
An earth fault will be what causes an RCD / MCB to trip.
To check for an earth fault you really need an insulation resistance meter.
It is also possible (In particular heaters) for them to be "ok" when cold, but when in use they expand due to the heat (funny that :roll: ) and that can be when the earth fault occurs.

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Which is correct? Metre or Meter? Click the link. to find out more.

No such thing as "Thou shalt put this wire here, Thou shalt put that wire there" .............Take a picture BEFORE you do the job.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:06 pm 
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Ah OK. That's good news. Because I did the resistance test on the old defrost heater and it let me to believe that it's not faulty but just sub-optimal.

I will give it a month or so before I decide whether the repair has fixed the issue for sure. It normally wouldn't go for more than two weeks before tripping the circuit


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:48 pm 
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If you don't mind answering, how much was the new heater?

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Take it easy, a forum is only a collection of opinions. Above, are mine.

Which is correct? Metre or Meter? Click the link. to find out more.

No such thing as "Thou shalt put this wire here, Thou shalt put that wire there" .............Take a picture BEFORE you do the job.

If gloom had a voice, it would be me. :mrgreen:

:idea1: How to post a picture on this forum Click here


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:54 pm 
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someone-else wrote:
If you don't mind answering, how much was the new heater?


i didnt buy a samsung branded one. i got one on ebay for £13 included 1st class postage, can get it 2nd class for less.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Samsung-RS21- ... 2748.l2649


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:14 pm 
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Just a quick update.

The fix did not last very long. it worked very well for a week and then it started tripping the earth.

I have changed the defrost sensor now and it's running well again without issues.

When I opened up to change the defrost sensor I saw a lot of ice build up on the defrost sensor (so the defrost heater isn't working or not being activated).

It may have been working the first week after repair because all the ice melted during install. Then it started to freeze up again causing it to trip the earth.

I will see if the defrost sensor replacement gets the defrost heater to work correctly.



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:45 am 
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Hope all sorted keep us updated

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