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mumto2boys
Junior Member
Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 6
Location: Reading
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 Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:28 pm Post subject: Knocking Down NON-Supporting Wall |
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Hi there
This is my first time to this site but hoping someone can help me.
My husband and his friend are planning to knock down the wall between our kitchen and dining room. We know an architect who lives in the same style house round the corner who said this is NOT a supporting wall and therefore building regs are not required. Well, at least this is what my husband is sure he said. Is this correct?
Also, my husband is still planning on putting in an RSJ to be on the safe side yet my dad (not a builder or anything) is insisting that you don't need to put anything at all in if it's non-supporting and therefore it's a total waste of money.
What are your views?
Thanks in advance.  |
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thescruff
Senior Member
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 5665
Location: Bath
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| Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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It may not be supporting, but it could be holding the floor up.
It was common practice to cut timber joists to rest on lower walls, cutting waste by using shorter spans.
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Scruff |
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leebwk
Senior Member
Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 847
Location: Oxford
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| Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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As Scruff has said, make sure it's not supporting the floor joists, it may well not be taking an upstairs wall but if it's taking the joists then the results will be just as devastating. check the upstairs floorboards and see which way they run ie if they run the same direction as the wall below then your joists will be on the wall.
If this is the case then an RSJ is required for that you will need building regs ie structural calcs and also prop the ceiling from both sides of the wall ie 8 acrows 4 either side with a length of timber positioned above them to take the floor joists ie 2 no scaffold boards each side is sufficient.
Hope this helps
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mumto2boys
Junior Member
Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 6
Location: Reading
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the replies.
I've now had confirmed that the wall is non load-bearing but that the joists need supporting that hold the bathroom floor up - does that make sense?
So, we need to obtain building regs I presume :-( Ok, can anyone give me a rough idea of what's involved to do this and how long you usually have to wait? Think my husband will be disappointed as they were planning to do the work weekend of 2nd Aug.
Thanks again |
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thescruff
Senior Member
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 5665
Location: Bath
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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You need to support the ceiling as per leebwk above and put in a lintel to support the weight load.
I would make a sketch of the existing joists etc and pop it into the planning office and have a chat with one of the inspectors
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mumto2boys
Junior Member
Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 6
Location: Reading
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, I have an architect friend who may have drawings from another house he's been involved in with the same layout - will ask him.
Thanks again for your help. |
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leebwk
Senior Member
Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 847
Location: Oxford
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:03 am Post subject: |
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You will need a structural engineer to do the calcs for you, this will determine the size of the RSJ an architect may not be necessary, speak to building control
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mumto2boys
Junior Member
Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 6
Location: Reading
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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Will do, thanks
I've had my dad on the phone today giving me a really hard time about it not making sense and I must admit, me and my husband agree to a point so are now confused with what we've been told.
How can it be possible for a wall to be non-supporting/non-load bearing yet support the joists which hold a bathroom floor up??? Surely that DOES make it a supporting wall? 
It's all very confusing and we'd love someone in the know to confirm this for sure (i.e. if it's possible to be called a non-supporting wall if it's supporting joists).
Thanks again |
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thescruff
Senior Member
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 5665
Location: Bath
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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A supporting wall is usually structural, e.g. another wall above, for example if you take the ground floor chimney out what hold the up bit up.
A load bearing wall is what you have, for example if you take the wall out the first floor bathroom will quickly be a ground floor bathroom, unless you put something in to keep it there, e.g. an RSJ or Catnic lintel.
You really need an structural engineer to size it properly.
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mumto2boys
Junior Member
Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 6
Location: Reading
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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Ok then, so we were mis-informed by people who've already done this job and told us it's not a load-bearing wall. Thanks for confirming.
How do you go about finding a structural engineer?
Thanks |
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thescruff
Senior Member
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 5665
Location: Bath
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| mumto2boys wrote: |
How do you go about finding a structural engineer?
Thanks |
If you have confirmed that the joists are cut on the wall then yes, it is a load bearing wall, others may have been different, yours may have been a case of the builder using up short lengths of timber.
Your Architect friend will know of a structural engineer for you
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darkhorse
Member
Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 52
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Am I correct in thinking that Building Control should be involved on any work that involves structural stuff? |
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mumto2boys
Junior Member
Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 6
Location: Reading
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| Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks again.
Yes, our architect friend is doing it all for us and getting the building regs sorted through building control. He said it shouldn't take long to sort and that we should be able to go ahead as planned for the weekend after next - fingers crossed! |
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