DIY Forum

 

Ultimate Handyman Ultimate Handyman Ultimate Handyman Ultimate HandymanUltimate Handyman on Pinterest

 

DIY Forum/Home improvement advice forum

 

 

A-Z CONTENTS | DISCLAIMER | DIY VIDEO | HOME | SAFETY FIRST | FORUM RULES

It is currently Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:59 pm
Visit Thermo worx


Time zone: Europe/London [ DST ]




 

 


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:09 pm 
Offline
Newly registered Member

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:37 pm
Posts: 15
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 1 times
Hi all, I'm replacing an old back boiler/tank system with a combi, all the radiators and central heating piping are being replaced too. I've decided to fit an Intergas combi so I can do the work in stages:

1. Install new boiler just for supplying domestic hot water initially.
2. Rip out all existing back boiler/tank/central heating plumbing.
3. Run new central heating pipes and install radiators, connect to new boiler and switch boiler to combi mode.

I got a quote for supplying and fitting the new boiler (including disconnecting any existing gas pipework, running a gas pipe to the new location, commissioning the boiler, doing some copper pipework to connect to the hot and cold supplies, 22mm stub pipework for the central heating so I can connect to it later) and it's more than I can afford.

I'm hoping I can do most of the work myself and just pay for the work that absolutely must be done by a qualified/certified person. I'm pretty handy and I think I can handle the pipe-bending, soldering joints, core-drilling involved. Can somebody clarify which of the following parts of the job I must leave to the gas safe engineer?

Screw boiler to the wall
Connect to fused spur for electricity supply
Connect cold supply
Connect to dhw pipework
Connect central heating flow and return pipes
Connect boiler condensate drain to house drains
Install filling loop, filters, expansion vessel
Drill hole for flue
Install flue
Run gas pipework
Connect gas pipework to boiler
Connect gas pipework to gas meter
Disconnect old gas pipework from gas meter
Commission boiler
Physically connect control system (Hive) to boiler
Configure Hive

Notes: the plumber that came to quote has confirmed that the boiler location I had in mind is acceptable (in terms of where the flue will exit the house) and has specified the gas route and pipe sizes that he would have used - which I would follow.


Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on DiggShare on DeliciousShare on Google+
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 3:44 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:03 pm
Posts: 6231
Has thanked: 697 times
Been thanked: 721 times
Basically leave everything to do with the boiler for the RGI to do, even hanging it on the wall.

At my last Gas Safe inspection a few months ago this was a prominent subject. The inspector said that all pipe work to the boiler must stop at least 600mm from the boiler, so the RGI connects the last 600mm of pipe work.

It is preferable that all the gas pipe work is left for him/her to do as well.

_________________
Dave

www.drlgas.co.uk


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:25 pm 
Online
Senior Member

Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 5:51 pm
Posts: 7189
Location: Essex
Has thanked: 406 times
Been thanked: 1407 times
Gender equality noted Dave :thumbright:

:lol:

DWD



For this message the author dewaltdisney has received gratitude : gas4you
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:46 pm 
Offline
Newly registered Member

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:37 pm
Posts: 15
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 1 times
I was afraid the reply would be something like that, I appreciate you letting me know the Gas Safe position on this.

I don't want to shoot the messenger here but I get pretty angry when I hear stuff like that. I can see the logic behind mandating that the RGI actually hang the boiler (just in case some DIY idiot doesn't secure it properly and creates a possible hazard) but to specify that the water pipework can't be connected to a boiler by anyone other than a RGI is taking the p*ss.

The Intergas boiler I'm fitting has a wall frame option, in a sensible world I would be allowed to fix that to the wall, run the pipes to it and drill the flue hole. Then the RGI could come and hang off the frame like a monkey to test the strength of the fixings, and run a professional eye over my pipework and then, if happy, proceed with running the gas line, fitting the boiler to the frame, connecting the flue and commissioning it.

Gas Safe taking that position is a power grab. It doesn't make the public any safer, it is simply them moving more work out of the DIY sphere into the area where the public have no choice but to pay plumbers to do it. They should be careful of how far they go down that path, at a certain point capable DIYers will realise that they have been prohibited from doing a lot of work they know they can perform safely. Then they'll start ignoring the rules they disagree with and you will be relying upon the untrained to differentiate between which regulations are important and which are overreach.



For this message the author Ged33 has received gratitude : arco_iris
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 6:58 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:27 pm
Posts: 124
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 26 times
I give 'Thanks' to OP not because I advocate contravening or breaking regulations, but because he (or she?) makes a valid point that in many cases that can be compared, the 'regulations' often serve to drive things underground.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:38 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:03 pm
Posts: 6231
Has thanked: 697 times
Been thanked: 721 times
I too have to agree about water pipes, but just passing on what I was told.

It was news to me also.

The only problem these days is that if you don't follow their rules then you may struggle to find someone to sign it off.

Gas Safe are saying now it's totally illegal for us to sign anybody else's work off, whereas years ago it was that you could sign it off but then took full responsibility for it forever and a day.

Imagine how I feel IF the chap who taught me fits a boiler but is no longer registered, but more experienced than me, now can't do this as I have to say sorry I can't do that for you anymore!

_________________
Dave

www.drlgas.co.uk


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:40 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:03 pm
Posts: 6231
Has thanked: 697 times
Been thanked: 721 times
But then, connecting the last two foot of pipe work isn't going to add that much to the price really either.

_________________
Dave

www.drlgas.co.uk


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:47 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:21 pm
Posts: 7335
Location: Northampton
Has thanked: 292 times
Been thanked: 896 times
What area of the country are you in OP and what sort of price have you been quoted? We don't know what your idea of reasonable might be until we know that.
Also what model Intergas are you fitting, HRE, ECO RF or Rapid?

And if you haven't already got it then please don't go out and buy a Hive, it's really not going to make the best use of the boilers capabilities and there can be issues using the twin channel version on a combi.

_________________
As always help on here is free, however if you think you have saved a decent sum of money why not click the link to find out about the charity we're currently supporting? A couple of quid makes a real difference.

donnas-dream-house-charity-t52110.html


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:42 am 
Offline
Newly registered Member

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:37 pm
Posts: 15
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 1 times
I'm in North Wales. I reckon there was a days work in the job, possibly a day-and-a-half, and the labour charge was around £1300-1400. I had to chase him for the quote, I think he just didn't want the job for some reason. Or maybe that's just his standard boiler fee.

I'm fitting an Eco RF, I would have much preferred an HRX but given they were supposed to be released in Spring and there's still no sign of them I'm having to go with the older model. I even sent an email to Intergas volunteering my house if they wanted a place to beta-test an install of the new boiler but didn't hear anything back.

I planned to use the Hive because I picked one up for £50 a while back in a sale, but I'm not wedded to it. What would you recommend instead?

Edited to add: The Hive I've got is the single channel model.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:22 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:55 am
Posts: 6264
Location: Glasgow
Has thanked: 1068 times
Been thanked: 786 times
Ged33 wrote:
I'm in North Wales. I reckon there was a days work in the job, possibly a day-and-a-half, and the labour charge was around £1300-1400. I had to chase him for the quote, I think he just didn't want the job for some reason. Or maybe that's just his standard boiler fee.

I'm fitting an Eco RF, I would have much preferred an HRX but given they were supposed to be released in Spring and there's still no sign of them I'm having to go with the older model. I even sent an email to Intergas volunteering my house if they wanted a place to beta-test an install of the new boiler but didn't hear anything back.

I planned to use the Hive because I picked one up for £50 a while back in a sale, but I'm not wedded to it. What would you recommend instead?

Edited to add: The Hive I've got is the single channel model.


Does he fix all your leaks in that 1.5 days?? Or rectify your incompatible controls??
My experience of fitting boilers for DIYers is not good, most have their ambitions mixed up with their ability.

_________________
Time-served Plumber/Heating Engineer & general wind-up merchant.
The Plumbers Anthem
If you have found my help or tips useful please donate here. Thank You;
donnas-dream-house-charity-t52110.html
Gas Safe RGI
Scottish, British & Proud.
I'm not or never claimed to be Chris Williams.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 3:27 pm 
Offline
UHM Super Moderator

Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:41 pm
Posts: 224
Has thanked: 35 times
Been thanked: 65 times
Another thread which has started getting personal.
Don't.
Let's keep it friendly.
Thanks.



For this message the author moderator7 has received gratitude : Razor
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:02 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 10:21 pm
Posts: 7335
Location: Northampton
Has thanked: 292 times
Been thanked: 896 times
1400 squids just to fit a boiler!! I'd come up and do it myself for half of that :wink:

Controls wise if you're fitting an ECO I'd deffo go with Intergas' Intouch system. It's a very similar UI to Hive if not quite as polished but it will give you full Opentherm capability on the boiler where Hive is barely a TPI control it's practically on/off which is far less efficient.
In addition with Intouch both your installer and Intergas UK can monitor your boiler remotely, be informed of any faults and change parameters without even attending.. It's a super effective control system that gets better each time it's patched. If the worst happens your installer will get an alert on their phone and they can see what's wrong with your boiler and even book a warranty call straight from their phone or tablet!

Parameter 1 will need to be changed to option 2 which will tell the boiler it's a multipoint water heater whilst the rest of the system is installed

The next boiler that's being launched isn't the HRX it will be the Extreme which is due around Feb next year, same platform as the HRX but bigger heat exchanger and you can't have the next test one because it's going to be fitted - oops can't say but my gas bill is very low :mrgreen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xpyu3e5PU0c&t=4s

_________________
As always help on here is free, however if you think you have saved a decent sum of money why not click the link to find out about the charity we're currently supporting? A couple of quid makes a real difference.

donnas-dream-house-charity-t52110.html



For this message the author Razor has received gratitude : gas4you
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:19 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:55 am
Posts: 6264
Location: Glasgow
Has thanked: 1068 times
Been thanked: 786 times
Razor wrote:
1400 squids just to fit a boiler!! I'd come up and do it myself for half of that :wink:

Controls wise if you're fitting an ECO I'd deffo go with Intergas' Intouch system. It's a very similar UI to Hive if not quite as polished but it will give you full Opentherm capability on the boiler where Hive is barely a TPI control it's practically on/off which is far less efficient.
In addition with Intouch both your installer and Intergas UK can monitor your boiler remotely, be informed of any faults and change parameters without even attending.. It's a super effective control system that gets better each time it's patched. If the worst happens your installer will get an alert on their phone and they can see what's wrong with your boiler and even book a warranty call straight from their phone or tablet!

Parameter 1 will need to be changed to option 2 which will tell the boiler it's a multipoint water heater whilst the rest of the system is installed

The next boiler that's being launched isn't the HRX it will be the Extreme which is due around Feb next year, same platform as the HRX but bigger heat exchanger and you can't have the next test one because it's going to be fitted - oops can't say but my gas bill is very low :mrgreen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xpyu3e5PU0c&t=4s


The OP does state 'supply & fit', is it supply & for £1.4K?? I smell BS!!

_________________
Time-served Plumber/Heating Engineer & general wind-up merchant.
The Plumbers Anthem
If you have found my help or tips useful please donate here. Thank You;
donnas-dream-house-charity-t52110.html
Gas Safe RGI
Scottish, British & Proud.
I'm not or never claimed to be Chris Williams.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:39 pm 
Offline
Newly registered Member

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:37 pm
Posts: 15
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 1 times
I got a quote for supply and fit, then I subtracted the retail cost for the boiler/fitting kit/flue/magnetic filter/some length of copper pipe to arrive at the £1300-1400 labour estimate. If the guy buys his equipment through a trade account cheaper than I can buy it myself from plumbcenter then he's actually making more than I estimated. That's ex vat by the way.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:49 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:55 am
Posts: 6264
Location: Glasgow
Has thanked: 1068 times
Been thanked: 786 times
Ged33 wrote:
I got a quote for supply and fit, then I subtracted the retail cost for the boiler/fitting kit/flue/magnetic filter/some length of copper pipe to arrive at the £1300-1400 labour estimate. If the guy buys his equipment through a trade account cheaper than I can buy it myself from plumbcenter then he's actually making more than I estimated. That's ex vat by the way.


I'd hate to do the job for you mate. The poor guys got all his on-costs, it's not just a simple matter of hanging the boiler on the wall, he's got training, registrations, lots & lots of overheads!!

Get some chancer in, and theres plenty course cowboys out there!! He'll be sure to give you a 'tail light warranty' & there's every chance he'll leave it poorly installed, not commissioned etc. You'll regret it when the manufacturer tells you it's a cr.p installation & not covered by their warranty.

Buy cheap, buy twice!!

_________________
Time-served Plumber/Heating Engineer & general wind-up merchant.
The Plumbers Anthem
If you have found my help or tips useful please donate here. Thank You;
donnas-dream-house-charity-t52110.html
Gas Safe RGI
Scottish, British & Proud.
I'm not or never claimed to be Chris Williams.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next


Similar topics
   

Time zone: Europe/London [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Visit Hilti


 

 

 

News News Site map Site map SitemapIndex SitemapIndex RSS Feed RSS Feed Channel list Channel list
ultimatehandyman privacy policy

Contact

 

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group

phpBB SEO