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 Post subject: I still have dents
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:15 am 
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Job 1.I have a wooden front door with metal capping on both sides. To cut a long story short after a terrible painter we decided to do it ourselves. I sanded back etc and filled in the holes with Bonda 2 part filler. http://www.decoratingdirect.co.uk/viewprod/b/BONDF/

I patch primed. 2 Dulux WS grey undercoat and 3 Dulux WS Gloss, sanding lightly with 1000 and 1200 between coats. Now, with the door being black you can see a few dents that I missed that I swear were not there before I painted it black (yeah, I know) but it's a first attempt. I honestly could not see these defects before the black went on so how do I now address these defects? Will it need sanding back to bare metal again or will Bonda stick over the paint?

Job 2. We've just painted the bathroom and where the paint meets the UPVC window frame it is peeling off. I have sanded, filled with Red Devil and painted a waterproof paint for bathrooms and still after 4 months it is peeling again. How do I stop this happening? No room in the house is plastered. it is all just plasterboard with paint over it. I wonder if it is getting damp because when the showers on both the window and walls are very wet even with the fan on.

Any suggestions would be hugely appreciated, many thanks Li


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 Post subject: Re: I still have dents
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:21 pm 
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No comment about the dents, I don't have any clever idea beyond read what the manufacturer says for its use. Be careful, you could end up with 6-7 coats of paint at this rate.

Your window might have had silicone round the frame and the chances are it would not be paintable silicone. You said you used red devil somewhere there, is the filler still in place and the paint lifts off from that? If yes, maybe you have a cold spot near the frame and moisture condenses and "bubbles" the paint off the plaster/filler.

Only guessing...


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 Post subject: Re: I still have dents
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:36 pm 
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Pictures would help.

You can use meths on silicone which sometimes creates enough of a bite for the paint to stick.


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 Post subject: Re: I still have dents
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:50 am 
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During the daylight I'll get a photo.

What#s the best thing for removing silicone? There isn't any on the frame, paints coming off whenre it's been filled and I haven't then used silicone to seal the paint to the frame...........ahhhh you could be right, that may be it.

I have silicone on the other side though I'd like to remove, it is sooo untidy

Thank you again


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 Post subject: Re: I still have dents
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:10 pm 
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lijongtao wrote:
During the daylight I'll get a photo.

What#s the best thing for removing silicone? There isn't any on the frame, paints coming off whenre it's been filled and I haven't then used silicone to seal the paint to the frame...........ahhhh you could be right, that may be it.

If the filler has stayed in place it can't be silicone that causes the paint to lift. Perhaps you did not "mist-coat" the filler.

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I have silicone on the other side though I'd like to remove, it is sooo untidy

If the silicone is thick you may have to cut it away with a stanley/olfa type knife, then google "silicone eater". The eater thing is an acid so when it penetrates the plaster or old paint I have no idea how your new paint is going to stick over that.

Good luck.


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 Post subject: Re: I still have dents
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:37 am 
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Hi all

I hope you can see these photos. You're looking at the side wall of the window where the paint meets the UPVc frame. There is no silicone on the frame or paint but under the paint there is some filler (Red Devil)
The paint is peeling constantly. Yes, the walls get wet as we have the bath and shower but none of the other paint peels, just near the frame as in the pictures, on both sides.

Should I Zinzzer over the paint and filler, then re-paint it? Would siliconing the paint where it meets the frame help?

Thanks so muc


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 Post subject: Re: I still have dents
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:46 am 
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Scrape and sand off all loose paint, dust off and hoover. Apply 2 coats off Zinsser Peel stop. Coat areas with a Matt paint, fill voids etc , sand n dust off.

Paint a watered down Matt on fillers then top coats.

Zinsser say that paint on Peel stop is fine but have not tested filler hence the coat of Matt, it's also a better base for filler to grab onto.


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 Post subject: Re: I still have dents
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:19 am 
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All I would add is use Toupret powder filler as Desmondo suggested.

@Desmondo. I had skim coated a wall that had been gardzed using a "blue" something or other powder by Toupret (it was their fine skimming coat). It stuck perfectly well, it just took a lot longer to dry/set. It was painted with Crown's extreme scrubbable etc. and then the project changed direction and it all got tiled. All the tiles (and large ones at that) are still up. Some of the fillers that you can rub with your fingertips may have a problem sticking on the Zinsser products.


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 Post subject: Re: I still have dents
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:05 pm 
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Thank you both very much. I will do just that. It's been driving me mad! Will let you know in 3 months if I have succeeded.


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 Post subject: Re: I still have dents
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:43 pm 
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OchAye wrote:
All I would add is use Toupret powder filler as Desmondo suggested.

@Desmondo. I had skim coated a wall that had been gardzed using a "blue" something or other powder by Toupret (it was their fine skimming coat). It stuck perfectly well, it just took a lot longer to dry/set. It was painted with Crown's extreme scrubbable etc. and then the project changed direction and it all got tiled. All the tiles (and large ones at that) are still up. Some of the fillers that you can rub with your fingertips may have a problem sticking on the Zinsser products.


Good to know.

I've been testing it out and so far holds very well with Prestonett ready mixed skim coat and Prestonett quick dry powder filler.

I'm presuming something like easyfill would be iffy.


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 Post subject: Re: I still have dents
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:00 pm 
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Never had an issue with zinsser products with any filler. :scratch:

@ OP I wonder if "someone" has used PVA as a primer in the past ? A big no-no and will cause exactly the problem you have.

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 Post subject: Re: I still have dents
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:39 pm 
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Desmondo15 wrote:
I'm presuming something like easyfill would be iffy.

I have had problems with it on plain surfaces so I will pass on that. The cr@piest filler I ever used was something that the Crown Dec Centre sold me (their cheap filler). Every time I filled some cracks I had opened, sand them down and I had an indentation. Eventually I worked out I could rub it off with just my finger tips. I went back with a face like I was bitten by a wasp so they sold me Toupret (their most expensive filler back then). For what I need I have never used anything else.

This is the current incarnation of what I had used over gardz (cachet bleu powder back then) http://www.toupret.co.uk/business-custo ... P04GB.html


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 Post subject: Re: I still have dents
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:31 pm 
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When I spoke to Zinsser they said that even BIN and 123 had not been tested for filler compatibility.

Reading between the lines - not all fillers stick the same so we can't guarantee it.

Mix a bit of paint into the filler :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: I still have dents
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:47 pm 
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Good on you to ask ;-)

I came across the "mix paint in the filler" some 45 years ago using pure gypsum. I tried it a couple of years back at a friend's new office (old whorehouse errmm warehouse). The holes were the equivalent of pulling a screw out of plaster, wide front narrow deeper end. The filler slumped and wrinkled and shrunk!!! and cracked!!!. I had used emulsion instead of water with toupret filler. Don't bother, it takes longer to dry too :-( At least for me, it was the right place to experiment, e.g. to find that a 12" sleeve is very nice indeed but with a scuttle I get too much dripping from the sleeve until I get to the wall or ceiling.

Good filler should stick on most things. There is no reason why filler would not stick but cheaper emulsion would. It just takes longer to dry as there is no absorption (and evaporation) with some of the zinsser sealing products.



For this message the author OchAye has received gratitude : Desmondo15
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 Post subject: Re: I still have dents
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:18 pm 
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wine~o wrote:
Never had an issue with zinsser products with any filler. :scratch:

@ OP I wonder if "someone" has used PVA as a primer in the past ? A big no-no and will cause exactly the problem you have.


When we moved int he area was void of any plasterboard. The previous owners had made holes in it, (their children I guess) I filled in most with red devil. So I am wondering as it's a soft filler if I used the wrong gear. Anyway, I am going to follow the advice and use Toupret. I really appreciate the help, many thanks


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