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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:09 pm 
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Hi,

I'm planning to start DIY so a total beginner here.
I want to start building small boxes and cases and need accurate 90 and 45 angles.

Cheap mitre saw aren't very accurate from what I hear and cheap table saw are even worse.
However, a simple sled can make very accurate cross cuts on any table saw if the blade is straight.

Is my understanding correct? Can I make a cheap table saw accurate?
I need precise cuts for boxes of about A4 size.

Thanks for any opinions,
Kris


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:19 pm 
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I use my band saw for work like that. You can make up a jig to ensure repetition and accuracy. With a band saw it is important to keep one blade just for straight cuts as any curved work tends to give the cut a bias.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:35 pm 
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Is cheap band saw OK to cut 30mm thick hardwood?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:42 pm 
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Yes, no problem. It is the blade quality that counts really and getting the tension and blade guides right so it is not sloppy. I cut tenons on mine and I like the ability to work carefully guiding the cuts which you cannot do on other saw types. This is not a bad little saw for the money https://www.screwfix.com/p/scheppach-hb ... 240v/96071

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:25 pm 
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It all depends on what you want to do. The end result you require, and what you are working with.
(Doesn't it always?)
Bandsaw, as DWD says gives decent results, but may need more work depending on the end result required. One snag with the bandsaw, and to some extent with the saw table, is down to the lengths that can be cut. Limited by the frame on the bandsaw, and (inevitably) where the table saw is sited. It's not recommended practice to cross cut very long lengths on the table saw in any case.
I've got a good quality, cast iron table, table saw and sliding table that I think of being fairly accurate. Cuts vary between near perfect, to just slightly off. No real apparent reason. Table is set up carefully with no apparent play anywhere. Sharp blade etc.
Cheapish chop saw gives similar results.
If you want accuracy as in a proper "engineering" type fit in hardwood then a saw won't give you an end result, or at least not reliably in my experience. You need to "shoot" the mitres with a plane, using either a mitre shooting board for "picture frame" type mitres, or a "donkey's ear" type board for long mitres like box corners.



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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:48 pm 
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I don't think it needs to be super accurate.

The inside of the box is exactly A4 so 210x297mm. I've ordered precut plywood and polycarbonate sheets at exactly this size. Varius thickness of timber will go around and the ordered sheets will make the shape.

My goal is to produce about 50 such boxes possibly quickly and at possibly low total cost.

I will try to buy a brand (dewalt or makita) second hand table saw but if won't find anything decent then probably try Evolution saw for about £100.

I mainly need lots of timber parts at exact length cut at 90 degree fast then glue it together, cut corners and sand it.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:26 pm 
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You say cheap, then you want to use mitres.... There is a basic contradiction in that, I feel. As Dave says it is probably easier to get an accurate cross cut on mitre saw than it is on a cheap table saw - sled or no sled. In any case mitres pretty much always have to be touched in with a plane to get a perfect fit, especially if there is any degree of cupping in the timber. There's also the difficulty of protecting the exposed blade in a sled - almost every design I've ever seen was stupidly dangerous. As to not needing to be accurate, a mitred corner box really does call for accuracy unless you intend to fill every mitre joint with wood filler

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:40 am 
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I've got a couple of the evolution saws, they're accurate once you've set them up properly.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:26 am 
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may i ask why you dont go for a butt joint at 90 degrees much much easier to assemble and cut more forgiving iff timber is not 100% even and flat :dunno:
how are you planning to join at the mitres screws dowels biscuits ??

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:26 pm 
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I plan to butt join at 90.
It will be glued most likely.

I consider Scheppach
SCHEPPACH HS105 255MM TABLE SAW 230V for £250 or Evolution s3 sliding mitre saw for £100.

Do you think a can do 90° cuts on them consistently? There will be no other angles.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:32 pm 
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It is always going to be faster and easier to make a cross cut on a mitre saw than it is to make a similar cut on a table saw. That's why joiners shops tend to use cross cut saws to cut to length and NOT table saws (which truth be told are primarily designed for ripping) in most cases. If it is possible to make your cross cuts on a non-slider mitre saw rather than a slider type that will tend to be more accurate as slider types all have a tendency to twist in cut (my best mitre saws is the Festool Kapex 120 and even that saw exhibits signs of blade warp/rail twist at times), more so at the outer most end of the saw's capacity. Accuracy and repeatability with a mitre saw will be greatly enhanced if you can make-up full length support table (the same height as the saw table) with some form of semi fixed length stops (e.g hinged flip stops) for your mitre saw - all of which needs to be firmly fixed onto a robust bench or table of some sort

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OK, I'm an "old school" chippie, so please don't ask me to do a bodge job - I didn't bring my horse today and in any case you don't seem to have a hitching rail!



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:54 pm 
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I guess it's easier to cross cut 3m long timber on a mitre/chop saw than on a table saw, especially with limited space.
When it comes to square cuts of smaller pieces I don't see how type of saw may affect the cuts. Both types of saw can be somehow accurate I think.

I've seen YouTube videos where people were making boxes and frames on a table saw with a sled.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:03 pm 
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Both types of saw can be reasonably accurate. Depending on quality of machine, blade, and operator / setter.
Read Job and Knock's posts.
There's no really "perfect" cut off a saw that I've seen. Timber off the saw nearly always needs further work.
Whether your particular project needs that or not, only you can decide. You haven't said what this is for.
"Glue only" boxes can work, assuming it's all long grain sides being glued, but they're a PIA to put together because there is no location like dowels, biscuits, or some other mechanical jointing device. They can also be less strong than with dowels or whatever. Depends on the use they're to be put to. . .
Finally as J & K says above, most of the "sleds" I've seen have been American in design and more or less dangerous. Any table saw being used with an uncovered blade is inherently dangerous. Add the often seen removal of the riving knife, and the fact that those parts aren't going to be replaced when ripping, and you have a possible accident in the making.
YouTube videos and certain "restoration" type programs on TV often show very dangerous practices.
You really need to fully understand the table saw before using one. It's strengths and weaknesses, and most importantly how to use one safely. Any accidents on these saws happen very quickly, and can results in very serious injuries.
The same applies to the cross cut saw really. Make sure you understand it properly before using one.
These are useful publications and guidance:
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis16.pdf
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis36.pdf
http://www.hse.gov.uk/woodworking/dimensionsaw.htm



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:12 pm 
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https://mobile.twitter.com/soujistiks/status/753484492661108736

It will be similar to this one. I want to produce handmade game controllers and sell them on eBay.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:36 pm 
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I'd reckon on cleaning the cut end that makes the butt joint up if I was making them. They might be OK off the saw though, if it's set up right, sharp blade, careful cuts.
You'll have to use dowels or something in that joint. The end grain won't hold with just glue. I'd use ply for the tops, solid timber will shrink across the grain and leave a gap at the edge.



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