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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:44 pm 
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Dave54 wrote:
I'd reckon on cleaning the cut end that makes the butt joint up if I was making them. They might be OK off the saw though, if it's set up right, sharp blade, careful cuts.
You'll have to use dowels or something in that joint. The end grain won't hold with just glue. I'd use ply for the tops, solid timber will shrink across the grain and leave a gap at the edge.



Good idea about dowels. I may consider them but I want the construction to be possibly quick, simple and inexpensive to do.

I'm thinking of something as simple as these ones:

Image
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With low budget, skills and uncertainty that it will sell I consider only titan table saw and Evolution mitre saw.
I'm OK with building jigs like table saw sled or table for router.

What inexpensive tool would you suggest me for simple 90degree cuts?

Thanks :binky:


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:58 pm 
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You may want it as quick and easy as poss, but you don't want it to fall apart when it gets dropped or something.
I'd go for the mitre saw myself for the crosscuts.



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:14 pm 
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I agree with Dave - go for the mitre saw over the rip saw, especially the cheapest models.

In terms of strengthening glued mitre joints, this can be done by assembling the joint first, then (after the glue has set) diagonal corner cuts can be made at the corners with a relatively fine hand saw and small fillets of wood veneer glued into the sawn grooves and cleaned up once the glue on those has set. This can be both decorative and strengthening but is only really suited to lightly loaded/used objects. If your duty cycle is heavier them you need to start thinking in terms of dowels, biscuits or some form of loose tongue or lock joint. Of those dowelling is potentially the cheapest. If on the other hand the inside joints will never be seen then the butt joints could well be strengthened my using a glue-rubbed and pinned or nailed softwood cleats or by using glued and screwed softwood cleats. Your last photo shows that sort of softwood cleat in use

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:13 pm 
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I have made some little boxes using a stop block on the mitre saw to get all the pieces even sizes. I did the mitres with a 45 degree bit in a router table.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:05 pm 
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Huge thanks for some really good advices. I really need to think how to reinforce the box.

What would you recommend as the easiest/quickest joint?
There will be either an inner frame to hold top and bottom or small blocks in the corners.

I think biscuit is quick and easy.
I was also thinking about using a router to make a grove along the longer side and stick a strip of plywood. It would take a little bit longer but would add decorative value.
It would look like a single finger joint on the shorter side and add a decorative line on the longer side.


What do you think?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:22 pm 
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What have you decided on mitre or butt joints?
J&K covers most of the options above.
Unless you are using birch ply for the joint you describe then you will have "voids" showing. Most ordinary ply has gaps or voids in the laminations.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:02 pm 
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i cant help thinking thinking you are rather jumping in at the deep end
you talk about cheap'quick'sell

you need to think long term
if you want to earn you need to buy better than basic quality to give you a reasonable quality
quick and good quality means more equipment requiring investment in the long term

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:46 pm 
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big-all wrote:
i cant help thinking thinking you are rather jumping in at the deep end
you talk about cheap'quick'sell

you need to think long term
if you want to earn you need to buy better than basic quality to give you a reasonable quality
quick and good quality means more equipment requiring investment in the long term


Agreed b-a. Decent quality kit makes more sense, as does a reasonably strong design for the boxes.
"Quick" could easily become "Expensive"
50 boxes is a fair investment in time, however you make them.
400 cuts, just for the sides. Any clean up needed. Assembly and finishing.
You don't want the boxes to fall apart, and have returns which have to be refunded.

Also I don't know how many units the OP will sell. It's easy to overestimate and get carried away with making batches. . .
(Don't ask. . . :roll: )
I did quite well with short batches of some things, but making bigger batches becomes a bit of a gamble unless (or at least until) you're sure of the market.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:55 pm 
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@big-all and @Dave54 - I know it may sound like I want an easy money but it's not the case.
There is a gap in the market in my opinion. You only have super cheap plastic cases or nice wooden cases for £300.

My goal is to produce possibly sturdy cases at affordable price. I also want to learn DIY and start teaching my kids.
It's more like a hobby than real business but of course I don't wan't to lose too much.

If you say I need to reinforce my boxes then I will do it. I just want to keep everything simple so my skills and equipment can cope.

I will make 2 versions of the case:
- One with 3mm Birch Plywood (B grade on top and BB grade on the bottom). Single one on the bottom of the case and double one on top.
- Second version will be with 2mm polycarbonate on the bottom and 3mm plywood + polycarbonate on top.

My plan for cheaper version would be made of these:
http://www.builderdepot.co.uk/par-softwood-timber-38mm-x-50mm-sold-per-metre.html
The finish size is 33mmx44mm.

The premium version would be made of hardwood and some decorative joinery.


My tools are very limited. So far I have a super cheap router
https://www.amazon.co.uk/101748-Electric-Trimmer-Laminator-Joiners/dp/B00LVVJ99U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1508258894&sr=8-1&keywords=router+tool

and super cheap sander
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01DWX48PE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Now I need a saw. I can buy a slightly better saw. Maybe something in £400 range. In worse case scenario I can sell it on ebay.
I was thinking of small DeWalt table saw as it's more cersatile and my cuts would be 90 degree.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:05 pm 
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no in your case a chop saw is what you need
a rip [table]blade will give you splinters and whilst its possible to mitre timber on a table saw its a compromise and easy to get wrong with all but the smallest lengths
if time is on your side look at aldi and lidl
also look up combination and flip saws which are a compromise but can do both tasks often slowly but less prone to errors

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:48 pm 
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Thank you big all for explanation.

At what length of wooden pieces a small table saw can be accurate?

What budget mitre saw would you recommend? Time isn't on my side for this purchase.
I consider this one: Makita MLS100

https://www.toolstation.com/shop/p56714?table=no


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:00 pm 
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fairly short really as you need need to support any timber hanging off the table then you get drag so the greater the weight and length the greater the chance it will be "dragged" off line by the end furthest away from blade i would say no more than perhaps once to twice the amount off length on the table to the side off the blade
so say 8" on the table then perhaps 16-24" total to the side off the blade

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:12 pm 
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suspect the makita will be around 140mm width off cut a 90/90% :dunno:
edit seems to be 3" 76mm :scratch:

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 Post subject: Budget table saw
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:26 am 
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Hi,

I'm just checking the market as I will probably decide to get a mitre saw: Evolution s3 for £100 or Makita mls100 for £150.
As for table saw my budget is about £400. If I want both table and mitre saw then £300 is budget for the table one.
I'm OK with making some jigs to make it more acurate. I need it for simple DIY learning and making some simple boxes.


Thanks.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:43 am 
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The new thread you started is a continuation from your previous thread.
I have merged it with the original.
One thread per topic. Thanks.


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