DIY Forum

 

Ultimate HandymanUltimate Handyman on Pinterest

 

DIY Forum/Home improvement advice forum

 

 

A-Z CONTENTS | DISCLAIMER | DIY VIDEO | HOME | SAFETY FIRST | FORUM RULES

It is currently Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:08 am
Visit Hilti


Time zone: Europe/London




 

 


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: How do I do this
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:36 pm 
Offline
Newly registered Member

Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:13 am
Posts: 18
Location: France
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 0 times
In my workshop I would like to try this idea. I would like to switch the internal lights on by pir and while I am working in there they stay on. This was what I was thinking about, I was going to put several lighting pir's or any pir's around the workshop to give me coverage and connect to a timer, and let's say set the timer to stay on for 20 minutes. If there is no movement detected then the lights will switch off, if movement is detected it resets the timer to 20 minutes. So I was going to connect pir's to timer and then timer to contactor. I know you can get occupancy pir's but I have a few lighting pir's and intruder alarm pir's on the shelf and would like to use these. I would also like to override the pir's with a normal switch to contactor. Any one got ideas on this and would it work or is there a simple way to do this. Thanks


Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on DiggShare on DeliciousShare on Google+
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: How do I do this
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:49 pm 
Offline
UHM Super Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2006 10:54 pm
Posts: 3808
Has thanked: 179 times
Been thanked: 617 times
Moved to Lighting before someone reports it.



For this message the author moderator2 has received gratitude : moderator7
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: How do I do this
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:23 pm 
Offline
Approved Electrician

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:01 pm
Posts: 2716
Location: South Yorkshire
Has thanked: 168 times
Been thanked: 582 times
How are you intending to get your lighting PIRs (that I assume are mains voltage) to work with alarm PIRs (that I assume are 12V)? I suspect that you will have to use one or the other and cannot mix and match (you can but it is not worth the effort).

The basic principles of what you are suggesting are easy enough.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: How do I do this
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:28 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:03 pm
Posts: 8129
Has thanked: 39 times
Been thanked: 1382 times
As only me has said, alarm pirs are 12v and lighting pirs are mains.
Alarm pirs will need an independent timer, and the mains ones wont. It can be done, but a lot of hassle for little gain.

But I have to ask, why not just install a switch, much easier, and it will work. You could even install a light outside so that you can tell from a distance that your workshop lights are still on.

_________________
Fret not, a forum is a collection of opinions. Above, are mine.

Which is correct? Metre or Meter? Click the link to find out more.

Working on anything electrical? have you got a multi meter? why not? Would you hit a nail with a shoe?

If gloom had a voice, it would be me. :mrgreen:

:idea1: How to post a picture on this forum Click here


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: How do I do this
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:04 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 11:49 pm
Posts: 10117
Location: Oban
Has thanked: 340 times
Been thanked: 1789 times
What you need is a re-triggerable monostable (timer).

Such a device will repeatedly activate contacts (close or open them) for the determined period (user set) and every activation of the re-trigger input starts a new time period.

If no devices send a re-trigger then the system 'times-out' and the lights go off.

Such a device is sometimes called a 'staircase timer' (to switch stair lighting on for a set period).

Connect all your PIR outputs in parallel and wire across the trigger input of the timer.

_________________
sent from my laptop using my fingers - because we REALLY need to know where it's come from.....


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: How do I do this
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:43 pm 
Offline
Newly registered Member

Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:13 am
Posts: 18
Location: France
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 0 times
OnlyMe wrote:
How are you intending to get your lighting PIRs (that I assume are mains voltage) to work with alarm PIRs (that I assume are 12V)? I suspect that you will have to use one or the other and cannot mix and match (you can but it is not worth the effort).

The basic principles of what you are suggesting are easy enough.


Ah what I should have said is I have a few pir's and I would use all mains (lighting ones) or just alarm pir's which I would have to use a 12v power supply with.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: How do I do this
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:48 pm 
Offline
Newly registered Member

Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:13 am
Posts: 18
Location: France
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 0 times
someone-else wrote:
As only me has said, alarm pirs are 12v and lighting pirs are mains.
Alarm pirs will need an independent timer, and the mains ones wont. It can be done, but a lot of hassle for little gain.

But I have to ask, why not just install a switch, much easier, and it will work. You could even install a light outside so that you can tell from a distance that your workshop lights are still on.


I sometimes leave the lights on thinking I will be back in a few minutes but never return until the evening so wasting a lot of electricity. So I was thinking of a way to automatically time out the lights, thinking about it maybe the override switch is not really needed.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: How do I do this
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:52 pm 
Offline
Newly registered Member

Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:13 am
Posts: 18
Location: France
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 0 times
kellys_eye wrote:
What you need is a re-triggerable monostable (timer).

Such a device will repeatedly activate contacts (close or open them) for the determined period (user set) and every activation of the re-trigger input starts a new time period.

If no devices send a re-trigger then the system 'times-out' and the lights go off.

Such a device is sometimes called a 'staircase timer' (to switch stair lighting on for a set period).

Connect all your PIR outputs in parallel and wire across the trigger input of the timer.


That is what they are called, thanks for that. I think I might have one of those, not sure if it is 12v and I think it is voltage free so will work with the alarm pir's. I think I will do a little test on the bench and see how it goes.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: How do I do this
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:02 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:03 pm
Posts: 8129
Has thanked: 39 times
Been thanked: 1382 times
I can understand leaving the lights on when not needed, but why not install LED lights, then you will not have to worry if you leave them on longer than required, If you install a light outside as well you can see you have left the lights on, or if you are in wi-fi range install a sonoff switch and control it from a smart phone.

The other point is if the lights are on a timer / pir they will go out just when you don't want them to which poses its own risks.

_________________
Fret not, a forum is a collection of opinions. Above, are mine.

Which is correct? Metre or Meter? Click the link to find out more.

Working on anything electrical? have you got a multi meter? why not? Would you hit a nail with a shoe?

If gloom had a voice, it would be me. :mrgreen:

:idea1: How to post a picture on this forum Click here


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: How do I do this
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:04 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:03 pm
Posts: 8129
Has thanked: 39 times
Been thanked: 1382 times
If you are going to try it with alarm pirs and a timer, bear in mind alarm pirs are NC not NO, so you would need to wire them in series, also the timer my be susceptible to spikes. But do try.

_________________
Fret not, a forum is a collection of opinions. Above, are mine.

Which is correct? Metre or Meter? Click the link to find out more.

Working on anything electrical? have you got a multi meter? why not? Would you hit a nail with a shoe?

If gloom had a voice, it would be me. :mrgreen:

:idea1: How to post a picture on this forum Click here


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: How do I do this
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:16 pm 
Offline
Newly registered Member

Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:13 am
Posts: 18
Location: France
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 0 times
someone-else wrote:
I can understand leaving the lights on when not needed, but why not install LED lights, then you will not have to worry if you leave them on longer than required, If you install a light outside as well you can see you have left the lights on, or if you are in wi-fi range install a sonoff switch and control it from a smart phone.

The other point is if the lights are on a timer / pir they will go out just when you don't want them to which poses its own risks.

Trouble with led's is that they don't last long or the one's I have bought don't. I would rather not use wifi I wanted to use a pretty fail safe idea. My workshop is 300m2 over two floors, so I was going to install pir's on both floors switching only the area I am in and with a few pir's overlapping hopefully not have to worry about the lights going out while I am there. I have the intention of coming back to finish something only to find I get distracted and end up doing something different and while I am typing this I have to go and switch the lights off that have been on all day.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: How do I do this
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:41 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:03 pm
Posts: 8129
Has thanked: 39 times
Been thanked: 1382 times
If you insist on doing it, I would opt for mains pirs, more reliable and have built in timers, but also bear in mind some (That's some, not all) can not switch inductive loads (or at least have to be de rated)

_________________
Fret not, a forum is a collection of opinions. Above, are mine.

Which is correct? Metre or Meter? Click the link to find out more.

Working on anything electrical? have you got a multi meter? why not? Would you hit a nail with a shoe?

If gloom had a voice, it would be me. :mrgreen:

:idea1: How to post a picture on this forum Click here



For this message the author someone-else has received gratitude : eaglesalz
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

 

 



Time zone: Europe/London


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Visit Solent plastics


 

 

 

News News Site map Site map SitemapIndex SitemapIndex RSS Feed RSS Feed Channel list Channel list
ultimatehandyman privacy policy

Contact

 

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group

phpBB SEO