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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:49 pm 
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Hi,

I am looking to make some doors for a workshop I am building. The opening is 1500mm wide by 900mm high. It would be a double door, so about 750mm wide each. The workshop will be fully insulated and background heated by tubular heaters.

I wanted the doors to be outward opening and was thinking of using t-hinges but happy to consider something more refined.

I've attached screenshots of the workshop and door design (only for 1 door, I'll make 2 the same). The door will be made of a planed pine frame with tongue and groove cladding in-fill. I'll probably rebait the frame at the back to accomodate the cladding. The door will be approximately 50mm thick and will probably include a small amount of insulation.

My query concerns how to best frame the doors to prevent water ingress and heat loss. Can anyone suggest how I might approach designing what surrounds the doors to achieve the above? What kind of threshold would be suitable? Should I just use a timber door stop strip around the door frame with some sort of brush attached or are there better options? Trying to avoid too much plastic or metal.

Is there a better option to using t-hinges?

Basically, I have the door opening already, I have a design for the doors, I just need to figure out how to fit them. Obviously I wouldn't be able to achieve the kind of finish/fit you'd expect from a professionally fitted house front door but would like to achieve something more refined and effective than a basic shed door.

I can upload some photos of the workshop and door opening if that would help.

Many thanks,

Carl Gilbert


Attachments:
Door Design.png
Door Design.png [ 96.12 KiB | Viewed 894 times ]
Workshop Design.png
Workshop Design.png [ 286.44 KiB | Viewed 894 times ]
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:11 pm 
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I've found the attached image online. Whilst it's a repair job, perhaps this is close to what I need. Outward opening and strips around the frame to reduce drafts. I presume there is, or could be, some sort of rubber strip routed or attached to the bottom of the door.

The threshold looks fairly straightforward and unobtrusive.

I presume for the join, I would simply attach a strip of wood to the edge of the door which opens first and possibly do the same on the back of the door which opens second. So when closed the strips finish flush to the other door (to the one they are secured to).

Hinges look to be butt hinges. Should imagine this allows for a tighter fit and more precise than t-hinges.


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Sample Door Fitting.jpg
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:27 pm 
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you really need the cladding solid and on the face so water dropping down will drip off the bottom
if you rebate into the back especially with v groove cladding water is directing onto the rebates at the bottom and middle off the frame so will finish inside the door face at the back

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:04 pm 
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The answer to your question depends in part on the thickness and weight of the doors. If the doors are heavy I'd rather have forged strap hinges or hook and band hinges - both are much stronger than thin T-hinges and they won't suffer as badly from the problems you'll get with seasonal timber movement with butt hinges. In terms of the door design I'd consider something like a framed, ledged and braced door:

Attachment:
Framed Ledged and Braced Door 001_01.JPG
Framed Ledged and Braced Door 001_01.JPG [ 65.81 KiB | Viewed 876 times ]

Attachment:
Framed Ledged and Braced Door 001_02.JPG
Framed Ledged and Braced Door 001_02.JPG [ 69.38 KiB | Viewed 876 times ]


which will need an appropriately thick/stiff frame to carry it. In terms of weatherproofing if the door is fitted inside a rebated frame (or more simply inside a plain frame with an applied stop lath) the outer edges can be sealed with foam rubber weather stripping. Don't forget to add a draught strip on the outside of the join and consider adding a timber or metal weather bar to the bottom of each door to flick the water away from the door bottom - and prevent or at least delay the onset of rot. If made of timber his should be either treated softwood or hardwood

Attachment:
Hardwood Weather Drip Bar 001-01.jpg
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:51 pm 
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As stated above, stick with strong band & crook hinges.
Just a point on the bracing. On a pair of doors like you are proposing in wood, the braces would be in 'compression' and meet at the clapping stiles. (ie: running up from bott & mid rails to top & mid rail at the meeting stile)

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:42 pm 
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Thanks all for your feedback on the door construction and the choice of hinges to use.

The door will be fairly heavy if I go with my original design I posted. The vertical parts of the frame are 44x94mm and the horizontals are 44x144mm.

I prefer the look of hook and band hinges so I'll go with these.

I can see the challenge with water ingress with the cladding if set within a frame, particularly if it were recessed by 10mm. I'd like to stick with the design I have rather than a more plain framed ledged and braced door.

How about if I bring the cladding flush with the frame and then use a breathable membrane behind, mounted onto a sheet of ply secured to battens running around the inside of the frame? (diagram attached)
I could then ensure the lower part of the cladding was well primed and painted to reduce water ingress. I had thought about extending the membrane so it came forward to effectively wrap around the sides of the cladding however I think this would interfere with the join between the cladding and the frame making the situation worse. Same issue I would have thought for the idea of introducing a bead of sealant around the frame before the cladding were fitted.

If the cladding and back board were 8mm and 9mm thick respectively then in a 44mm frame I'd have about 27mm left for celotex insualtion. Would I still need braces in the frame? If so I could put these behind the board and put any insualtion around the braces.

Failing that, basic ledged and braced door...

Many thanks,

Carl


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:47 pm 
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it will be far worse with a membrane
your design will fail as it traps water
if you want the visual effect then plant thin timber on the face
these will still tend to hold moisture but away from the structural timbers

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:46 pm 
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Ok, I'll have to concede defeat on the original design. Now thinking of going for a more straight-forward framed ledged and braced door with T&G cladding on the front with the addition of a timber strip at the top and bottom. The timber strip would be narrower than the lower section of the frame; frame will be about 94mm, strip will be about 44mm.

The frame will then be in-filled with 25mm Celotex with a plywood backing. Design images attached.

I'll then use hook and band hinges top and bottom.

Thanks for the input.

Carl


Attachments:
Door Design - rear.png
Door Design - rear.png [ 524.76 KiB | Viewed 663 times ]
Door Design - layers.png
Door Design - layers.png [ 81.47 KiB | Viewed 663 times ]
Door Design - front.png
Door Design - front.png [ 27.73 KiB | Viewed 663 times ]
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