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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:33 pm 
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Hi,

I have a friend who is a qualified electrician and he says that it is now illegal for people to do DIY electrics, he is in some organisation NICIEC or something, he even pointed me to a page on the internet that says that DIY wiring is illegal!!!!

This makes me wonder why you have electrical wiring pages on your site, surely this is encouraging people to break the law?

Thanks

SS


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 1:22 pm 
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Hi SS

I have looked at the NICEIC website and I think I have found the page thet your so called friend showed to you.

http://www.niceic.org.uk/partp/newsitemjan052.html

...........................................................................................................

Face up to new electrical safety law or face fines

Homeowners warned to SWITCH ON to new building regulations
The NICEIC is urging homeowners who plan to tackle home improvement projects to be aware of tough new changes to building regulations, which if not complied with, could land you with a massive £5,000 fine and a property you can't sell.

The new building regulation Part P, effective since 1st January 2005, requires most electrical work in the home to be carried out by a government-approved electrician, such as one registered with the NICEIC. Its aim is to stop the rising number of deaths from faulty electrics, much of which is undertaken by over ambitious DIY enthusiasts and cowboy electricians.

Under the new law, homeowners are still able to replace accessories such as light switches and sockets to an existing circuit, although there are exceptions for locations such as kitchens and bathrooms. An electrician registered under a government-approved scheme must undertake all other work. The alternative, for DIY'ers, is to notify a local building control body before starting any work and pay the appropriate fee for an inspection and a certificate after work is completed.

"This law will make homes safer and is long overdue", says Jim Speirs director general of electrical safety body, the NICEIC. "Homeowners will now be protected from dangerous electrics as a competent electrician will provide them with a certificate once they've completed the work. If you don't get a certificate or do the work yourself without getting it checked, you will not only be sitting on a potential electrical time bomb, but committing a criminal offence too. Your local authority can order the removal or correction of any work and fine you up to £5,000."


Failure to comply could also make it difficult to sell your house in the future. The NICEIC advises that electrical installation certificates are likely to be included in the government's proposed home sellers' packs. These are designed to offer prospective buyers reassurance and peace of mind about the safety of homes being offered for sale.
Amazingly, electricians have never been regulated despite faulty electrics causing an average of 12,500 house fires, 750 serious injuries and 10 deaths each year.

The NICEIC welcomes the government's decision to finally clamp down on the cowboys who cause these deaths and is advising homeowners to make sure they only employ government-approved electricians.


..........................................................................................................................................................


I would say that that page is very badly worded!

NICEIC= stealth TAX :twisted:


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 4:43 pm 
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I have checked many part P and the NICEIC posts on the screwfix direct forum and lots of the electricians on there, that have plenty of qualifications and experience are not at all happy with the NICEIC! I would liken it to the newer version of the stone masons.

The new building regulation Part P, effective since 1st January 2005, requires most electrical work in the home to be carried out by a government-approved electrician, such as one registered with the NICEIC. Its aim is to stop the rising number of deaths from faulty electrics, much of which is undertaken by over ambitious DIY enthusiasts and cowboy electricians.

Not quite sure how the NICEIC can justify this statement as it is clearly mis-leading, according to the ODPM (office of the deputy prime minister)-

You do not need to tell your local authority's Building Control Department about: repairs, replacements and maintenance work; or
extra power points or lighting points or other alterations to existing circuits (except in a kitchen or bathroom, or outdoors).


I am pretty sure that the office of the deputy prime minister carries more weight then the NICEIC!


"This law will make homes safer and is long overdue", says Jim Speirs director general of electrical safety body, the NICEIC. "Homeowners will now be protected from dangerous electrics as a competent electrician will provide them with a certificate once they've completed the work. If you don't get a certificate or do the work yourself without getting it checked, you will not only be sitting on a potential electrical time bomb, but committing a criminal offence too. Your local authority can order the removal or correction of any work and fine you up to £5,000."

I cannot understand how running a cable in a permitted zone will reduce the amount of deaths caused by faulty electrics, even if the wire is capped with steel capping it will still easily be penetrated by a nail or power drill. I wonder how much the director of this "charity" is earning per year? I have to agree with honey monster and 90% of other electricians that are not registered with the NICEIC and say that part p is simply a stealth tax.

Why not let people do their own electrics and then get it tested for a reasonable fee, rather than the extortionate fees that are being charged under part P.

If the government was really concerned about people dying from electricity and electrical fires then why not reduce the electricity supply to a safer voltage?


So to make it clear- DOING DIY ELECTRICS IS NOT ILLEGAL, BUT YOU MAY NEED TO INFORM YOUR LOCAL BUILDING CONTROL BEFORE DOING CERTAIN JOBS AND PAY THEIR FEE!

The new rules are here-

new rules

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 10:59 pm 
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Not quite sure on this part issue, I mean who the hell is going to know if you do some wiring now and say it was done in 2004. The new harmonised cable has been available since early 2004!!!!!!!!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:10 pm 
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Thanks UHM and honeymonster,

I will be more reluctant to believe anything he says in the future. I often wondered why my friend married him in the first place, hope he doesn't read this post lol.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:49 pm 
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i know this is an old post but,

Whilst Part p has made me "an approved contractor(great)"
and now i spend at least 2 hours a night filling in paperwork, and generally wasting my time and as much as i love the bills i have to pay each year, its a bloody shambles.....

the ODPM say you can do electrical work in your own home, if its work classed as "notifiyable" then you have to notify the local planning dept, who will inspect at a fee....

in reality, most councils wont even let you do your own work, they will however allow a qualified electrician, who ISNT part p registered to notify using the above route.

as for the NICEIC, im NICEIC personally, plus NICEIC company rep, im also NAPIT and soon to be Government Trust mark approved....

NICEIC ...where to start, they are a mess, the advice is often misleading, they make up regulations as they go along, their members don’t even all need to be assessed on the company assessment, whereas with NAPIT, every members of the company will be assessed individually.

so my advice to anyone looking for a contractor is to use a NAPIT one because atleast then you will have a competent person rather than a monkey working whos work is "overseen" by one!

ss


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 6:34 pm 
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honeymonster wrote:
said that the NICEIC said:

If you don't get a certificate or do the work yourself without getting it checked, you will not only be sitting on a potential electrical time bomb, but committing a criminal offence too. Your local authority can order the removal or correction of any work and fine you up to £5,000."


The Office of the Deputy Prime Minister is not so dictatorial. He says:

What will happen if I do not follow the Building Regulations?

* The electrical installation might not be safe.
* You will have no record of the work done.
* You may have difficulty selling your home if you do not have the right electrical safety certificates.
* Your local authority's Building Control Department may insist that you put right faulty work.

Nothing about a £5000 fine. Nothing about a local authority ordering the removal of any work.

As for the difficulty of selling a house, the proposal in that the "Home Information Pack" contains a visual report issued by a (trained) surveyor. That can't be as strict as even a Periodic Inspection Report.

So the answer for DIY is to carry on. Don't bother paying the BC fee. The probability of getting "caught" is negligable and there are no financial consequences even if you are caught. Notify and you pay £60 or more.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2006 8:59 pm 
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Stoday wrote:
honeymonster wrote:
said that the NICEIC said:

If you don't get a certificate or do the work yourself without getting it checked, you will not only be sitting on a potential electrical time bomb, but committing a criminal offence too. Your local authority can order the removal or correction of any work and fine you up to £5,000."


The Office of the Deputy Prime Minister is not so dictatorial. He says:

What will happen if I do not follow the Building Regulations?

* The electrical installation might not be safe.
* You will have no record of the work done.
* You may have difficulty selling your home if you do not have the right electrical safety certificates.
* Your local authority's Building Control Department may insist that you put right faulty work.

Nothing about a £5000 fine. Nothing about a local authority ordering the removal of any work.

As for the difficulty of selling a house, the proposal in that the "Home Information Pack" contains a visual report issued by a (trained) surveyor. That can't be as strict as even a Periodic Inspection Report.

So the answer for DIY is to carry on. Don't bother paying the BC fee. The probability of getting "caught" is negligable and there are no financial consequences even if you are caught. Notify and you pay £60 or more.


Not recommended if your doing a job in which building control are involved. IE: New build extension.

Building control will want a certificate and if they send one of their sparks in to test and certify and something doesn't conform! You'll be made to put right any deferments which might be in place. Regardless of progress of the job in question.

Just mind how you go that's all :wink:


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2006 6:29 am 
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Quite right, Marky.

If building control's involved because it's an extension or the like, you pay no extra fee for the electrics, so you might as well inform them.

Write your own EIC, of course (& if you don't know how to, you may not know enough to DIY).


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