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 Post subject: High speed diamond hone.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 11:46 am 
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Hi,

I've just started a new project which I've been thinking about for a couple of years. I bought a diamond 100mm dia cup honing wheel from RDG with the intention of turning this into an home made honing machine? Collecting the wheel I was informed by RDG that these wheels must run at very high speeds; customers were buying these wheels then complaining they were useless but the customers had been running the wheels much too slowly therefore stripping the diamonds?

This presented a problem because my first thoughts were to buy a VFD in order to run a motor at high speed but the VFD's cost around £100 plus a suitable motor? I thought about using pulleys to step up the speed but wasn't in a hurry so I just kept thinking about my options. A few months ago whilst at Rufforth Auto Jumble I saw a brand new Parkside router with a set of router cutters on sale at £25; suddenly it occurred to me here was the perfect answer to gaining the required speed and at around 1200W the router would be well on top of the job giving in excess of 10,000rpm? The identical sets of router cutters were being sold on the same stall for £8 per set so I actually only paid £17 for the new router.

Now I had the router and the diamond wheel but I got rather sidetracked in making a punching machine so finally I've got around to having a go with this proposed honing machine. I've only managed an hour or so playing around but already the new honing machine is quickly taking shape as seen in the pictures below. I rigged up a very simple MDF stand to hold the router in a horizontal position; the two pieces of MDF are screwed but for joint strength I added a length of angle iron. The router is secured to the MDF with two 6mm dia countersunk set screws washers and nuts. A large hole is bored to allow the mounting of the diamond wheel to the router but I have yet to turn the steel mounting adapter which I think will be a straightforward lathe job once I get back into the garage. I plan to add a top guard for my safety as I don't want a diamond honing wheel to explode in my face and I'll also look into a tool rest of some kind?

All this at the moment is just an idea I dreamt up and I've never seen this done previously but I'm sure I'm in with a good chance of success and so far the project is proving incredibly easy now I've done the hard part in thinking about it. The router collet is 8mm so I need to turn an adapter to suit this but I think the diamond wheel has a 20mm dia bore?

I've just washed and dried the car in the perishing cold so as it was trying to rain or snow I've put the car away preventing me playing in the garage. Next garage session though I'll move this project along and it shouldn't take a lot of time; I'm knocking up this honing machine quickly just to test it out; if successful I can easily make a much better and neater job of it. I'm interested to find out if this new machine will sharpen my carbide lathe tooling and my HSS tooling? I love experimenting with such ideas and it keeps my head and hands busy; much better than being bored; now where is this global warming I get so sick of hearing about; time it came to Yorkshire? :scratch: More to follow but so far its looking good and where could I buy such a machine for the little money thus far spent? :thumbleft:

Kind regards, Col.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 3:48 pm 
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I'll be watching this with interest, I really need to set up a diamond grinder to hone my carbide tools. I have a diamond wheel for my tormek which creates a superb polished edge (it's ultra fine diamond embedded in cast iron) but it is far too slow to remove nicks and chips from the carbide.



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 6:12 pm 
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Just a thought on my part, but a router seemed like a lot of rpm for a 100mm disc. I didn't know what the speeds were, so I did a bit of Google warrioring, and found similar 100mm discs with a rating of just over 9000 rpm. It appears that the lowest speed on that router is 11000 rpm.
Don't want to spoil anything, but be careful Col.



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:18 pm 
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Hi,

I too am interested Rorschach in how this turns out but I'm hampered by the usual dire weather; not only lots of rain but its now perishingly cold to be playing around in the garage even if I do put the heat on.

I understand your concerns Dave54 and many thanks for mentioning them because they are so valid. I do lots of experimenting in the garage when it comes to my machines and I stress I only add my stories for interest; if others wish to try similar projects I would caution against taking risks; I know the speed of the router and will ensure it is at the lowest speed setting but I've already mentioned the need for a guard in order to prevent injury should the diamond wheel explode; I'm also fully aware of the consequences should I turn an adapter which isn't perfectly axially true for mounting into the router and also into the wheel; I think I'll try turning both diameters without removing the blank from the lathe but more of this later once I can get into the garage. In industry only a suitably trained person can change grinding wheels and I was made aware of this 50 years ago; even a standard grinding wheel can explode causing serious injury. Would you believe just greasing a bearing can be dangerous? As an apprentice I was assisting the engineers in building a roller assembly which was mounted on big bearings; I was told to use the high pressure grease gun to fill the bearings through the grease nipples and that I must ensure plenty of grease was injected; I pumped the grease gun for all I was worth and ended up with a thick ear for my troubles because the grease pressure locked the bearings. I was then told to remove the grease nipples; it's a good job I was standing to one side as I started to undo the first nipple; the nipple suddenly disappeared at lightning speed followed by a long trail of grease; I'm sure that nipple would have gone through me had I been in direct line of shot? The engineers were closely watching me and knowing I was out of the way waited for the missile to take off. Such lessons are one offs and once learnt never forgotten. :thumbleft:

Kind regards, Col.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 8:45 pm 
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Is there a limit to how long you can run the router continuously - and are you likely to exceed that?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:23 pm 
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Hi,

Very good question ayjay; I'm sensitive to my machines and instinctively know when they aren't happy; I've run my big routers for long periods whilst moulding 600' of softwood without the router heating up or showing any signs of distress. At the moment this is just another of my ideas I'm trying out; I don't know how long the diamond wheel will last and at around £20 each they are not top class industrial wheels but it's worth a try and I've not modified the router in any way; it's worth a few quid just to play around and to keep my head and hands busy. If it works then I can easily make a better job of it but it's worth a try? :scratch:

Kind regards, Col.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:31 pm 
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I would think a few minutes would be more than enough to do the grinding. Carbide tools are usually quite small so require much less work than say a large HSS tool blank.



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 10:25 am 
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Hi,

Thanks Rorschach; yes I agree it shouldn't take long to touch up a carbide tipped tool. I have a good selection of both carbide tipped and HSS tooling so I don't bother sharpening single tools I like to have a session and sharpen a few. I prefer HSS tooling because it is easier to sharpen to any shape or size and can be sharpened on a standard bench grinder but I'm curious as to the edge a diamond wheel will impart on an HSS tool? I buy HSS blanks for the lathe quite cheaply and grind these to suit the work in hand; I can rough grind these on the bench grinder then hopefully add a very fine finish with the diamond wheel but at the moment I'm just daydreaming because of the dire weather preventing me getting into the garage in peace; it's another cold black hole and raining this morning with snow forecast to really rub it in. ::b ::b ::b

I'm interested to learn of your Tormek ultra fine diamond wheel with the diamonds set in cast iron; I can easily see how this wheel would be slow to grind but give a superb polished edge; if my ides works I'd like to upgrade to an industrial type diamond honing wheel knowing it would be quite expensive but a one off payment due to my low usage; in the meantime I can experiment at little cost using the cheap router and wheel. Many years ago I bought a fine grit green grinding wheel to fit my then industrial 8" grinder but thought this wheel to be useless and I was most disappointed with the results so removed the wheel and I think it still resides under the bench.

It's worth noting that there isn't a single grinding wheel that is suitable for grinding all metals; the diamond wheel will grind the extra hard carbide but it's going to be interesting to see how it grinds HSS (high speed steel). When I built my home made belt honing machine years ago I had choice of belts to suit various metals and in assorted grits; this is a huge subject in its own right and to do the job properly it can rack up an equally huge bill.

I've even considered rigging up a "lap" to use on the DML woodturning lathe this lap being turned from a cast iron blank to be used with various lapping pastes; once I start something I never know where it will end up but I'm familiar with most metalworking processes; here is an interesting video;



I used to own a Denford 16" Sharpedge like the one in the following video but it took up a lot of space and although it did a good job of honing it was incredibly slow whilst being rather messy due to the special cutting fluid; keeping tools correctly sharpened isn't as easy as it would appear.

Kind regards, Col.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 12:18 pm 
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I wouldn't use the diamond on the HSS, at high speeds the diamond will actually dissolve into the HSS ruining your wheel and your tool.
I also do my sharpening in sessions and do everything I can at once, the Tormek is then always ready for a touch up while working if required. I rough out my tools at an AlOx wheel on the grinder then switch to a #1000 japanese water stone on the tormek. Carbide I touch up by hand at the moment with various diamond stones but it is hard work, I would like a roughing grinder like you are building and then can use either hand or the tormek diamond lap for the final edge when needed.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 2:10 pm 
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Hi,

Thanks Rorschach; I'll heed your information regarding not using the diamond wheel to sharpen HSS.

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/projects/d_wheels/dwdoc.html

Above is a good website for diamond sharpening/honing products including diamond lapping pastes. I would have thought diamond bonded with cast iron to be good but reading the notes it appears resin bonded diamonds are better?

Many years ago I bought a pair of Japanese water stones which I think were King brand; a roughing stone at 1,000g and a polishing stone at 12,000g. My initial impression after soaking the stones in water was excellent but it didn't last because the 1,000g stone proved useless due to its wear rate; it certainly cut OK but I couldn't keep it level so I gave it away; I believe I still have the 12,000g stone under the bench but I never use it. This is why I'm once again looking at my tool sharpening kit.

I use a Norton white grinding wheel in my 6" dia Wolfe bench grinder and this wheel is excellent but soft so its very easy to round the corners and add tramlines.

Recently I've mounted my B&D 4" angle grinder into the big engineering vice and installed a very thin cut off disc suitable for metal; this is an improvement in that the disc corners wear slower and it being such a narrow disc the radius when the corners do wear isn't a big problem; ear and eye protection is a must though in all grinding operations especially whilst using the angle grinder.

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Above is my angle grinder set up in the vice; this was done quickly in order to grind very small punch tips but I'm sure I could vastly improve upon this by adding a decent tool rest so that HSS drill bits and lathe tooling could be ground to correct angles. A bit of ingenuity goes a long way; anyone can throw lots of money into buying dedicated tools etc but many times with a bit of thought tools already to hand can be pressed into service at little or no cost. This B&D angle grinder is old but still performs as it did when new and it owes me nothing.

I'm highly frustrated by this terrible weather but I have little to moan about compared to the poor souls who are flooded out of their homes. Its still a nuisance though not being able to get into the garage in comfort. :cb

Kind regards, Col.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2015 7:32 pm 
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Resin bonded is probably best for high speed applications. With cast iron the diamonds are essentially "forced" into the soft cast iron surface, in a high speed situation they would quickly be stripped, the same can with the cheaper diamond hones where they are held in place using nickel plating. Unless specially designed you really don't want to run diamonds at high speed because the heat generated caused them to dissolve into available carbon (as found in steel). Diamond discs for angle grinders are also made using nickel plating methods but these are ok because they are used to cut tile and stone which has no free carbon for the diamond to dissolve into.



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:02 pm 
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Hi,

Thanks for adding the information Rorschach; I'm new to diamond wheels so on a steep learning curve once again. :thumbleft:

A couple of days ago I wandered into the garage to resume work on this project and absolutely nothing went as planned; the new Balata flat drive belt I had stitched on to the Lorch Schmidt lathe was slipping; the new clamping plate I had made for the Clarke lathe tailstock when nipped up pulled the tailstock out of alignment; when I finally sorted out the drive belt the cut I put on was very rough indeed; this proved to a chipped carbide tip; as usual it was raining so the car needed washing and drying before being put away; I gave up and called it a day?

Today however everything I've touched has behaved itself; I touched up the chipped carbide tip on my home made belt honing machine and now the Lorch is a real beauty to own and use; the pictures show some of the swarf; I put on a decent cut and the tool simply peeled the metal away; had the belt not been joined by stitching I'm sure this Lorch would easily peel away 1/2" on diameter at one pass; I enjoy my machines when they run like this. Cutting through the thick bar stock using the trusty hacksaw warmed me up nicely; I must remember to buy some 18tpi hacksaw blades; the 24tpi are too fine for this thickness.

I intended to turn the complete adapter without removing it from the lathe but given our dire weather and low daylight hours I turned from one end then re-mounted the adapter but I clocked it using the DTI to ensure it ran true.

I machined the router end at 8mm dia to suit the largest collect for this Parkside router and turned the other end to suit an 8mm nut. Before removing the adapter from the lathe I ensured the collect was a snug fit also the landing for the new diamond wheel. To determine the size for the 8mm nut I simply used my digital vernier caliper to measure the outer diameter on a new 8mm set screw and used this measurement; it saves lots of playing around. 3/4" extra length was added to allow for the adapter to go through the thick MDF mounting. Once everything was set up and I felt more at home the turning was easy.

I could see through the garage door windows that daylight was fading so once again I did my favourite chore of washing and drying the soaking wet car before putting the car away; perhaps some day it won't rain? Next session I'll have a go at attaching the diamond wheel to the router. The hardest part of this project is the dire weather but at least we are not flooded out of our home as many have been recently.

Kind regards, Col.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:14 pm 
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Looking good!



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:55 pm 
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Hi,

What a wonderful result; I've now got this diamond hone up and running and although I've only tested it on a single carbide lathe tool it works like a dream. I've never used a high speed diamond hone previously and I was a bit worried about applying a tool bit onto the hone whilst the hone was bearing down from above the tool so out of curiosity I thought it might be gentler on the hone to apply the tool with the hone running "uphill". It works a tread and I'm most impressed by how quickly it touched up both edges in a matter of seconds with a very light touch; a shower of tiny sparks is produced during honing and eye protection is a must also ear protection due to the router whine. Honing is rapid with good stock removal even with a light touch; I can see the very fine scratches imparted by each diamond; for my use I'm sure this finish is acceptable but of course a finishing diamond hone would impart a much finer surface? A self locking nut has been used to secure the honing wheel in position.

The router takes a short while longer to run up to speed with the hone attached and for safety I added a rough top guard but I'll improve upon this by adding a plywood front to enclose more of the hone. The tool rest is merely a couple pieces of angle iron and the rest works OK; for my lathe-work I'll set the rest and leave it permanent at the setting.

Initially when I came up with the idea of making this hone I didn't realize it would eventually turn out to be a very easy project; the only difficult part being making the adapter but only difficult if a lathe isn't owned or available. There is a slight tremor through the router at speed but the hone sits on the bench without it running around; I clamped it to the bench for safety. I locked on the router switch by tying some string around it allowing control from the 13A switched socket. I double checked that the router speed setting was at minimum before switching on and I added the guard before switching on; it's tempting to experiment but caution is the way to go with any machine putting out such high speed.

Unfortunately the images I took of the sharpened tool are very poor due to lighting and my lack of camera skill but the images of the honing machine are better. It will be interesting to see how long this diamond hone wheel lasts but for my infrequent home workshop use it should pay for itself many times over sharpening carbide tooling which otherwise would be cast aside. The router cost £17 and the diamond wheel about £19 plus a bit of interesting work leaving me with a high speed hone for under £40. Life can be so good. :salute:

PLEASE do not attempt making one of these high speed hones unless you are competent; I have over 50 years experience playing with machinery and I still never take risks; anything breaking free at 11,000 rpm is highly dangerous and commands utmost respect; I'm adding further guards to my hone before putting into full service. Ply safe. :thumbleft:

Kind regards, Col.

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