Hi, can anyone let me know a professional opinion on whether I have the best use of a 22mm supply.

Just before a major refurbishment I had a new 22mm water supply fitted to our property. We have since had a new combi boiler (Vaillant EcoTec Plus), new central heating and three ensuites fitted. There are three showers using mixer valves. We also have a steam room and a water softener was fitted on recommendation of the installers.

Only once they had left did I notice that the 22mm feed is reduced down immediately on entering the premises to a 15mm pipe. The supply then goes through a pressure reducer before entering the water softener where the water is then split between the cold system and the boiler.

I hope I have explained that so that it is clear.

I have been told that reducing it to 15mm will not affect the performance I can expect from my showers. Is this true and have they made the best use of my 22mm supply?

Thanks in advance.

Stan

Three ensuites and a steam room as well as other outlets connected to a combi.

First thoughts is Your having a laugh, or the installer is.

Have to go out but will look later.

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Back again for 30 mins or there abouts.

How is the steam room supplied and heated.

Reducing the mains to 15mm certainly wont affect the performance as it is plenty for the Boiler.

The real problem is what comes out of the boiler, and it will never be better than poor, unless you have a cylinder or water heater installed.

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Thanks for your help. The steam room has a steam generator that is fed from the cold supply. But I don't want to cloud the issue with the steam room, just added it for info in case it was relevant.

My main concern was to do with the 22mm supply being reduced. Please forgive my ignorance, but as a niaive layman, it would appear to me that once the 15mm supply was through the softener it is then divided into a supply to the boiler and a supply to the cold taps etc. Woudn't that mean that only half the water is going to the boiler or wouldn't that be the case.

Thanks, Stan

Know what you are saying, but you only get out what the boiler produces 10 to 15ltrs/min depending on the boiler model.

15mm will more than supply that assuming the mains pressure is good to go.

If you use one appliance at a time it will be fine, after that you will get a significant drop in performance.

I asked about the steam room as you can't connect them to a combination boiler, unless there's a new model I don't know about.

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The mains pressure is good and had to be reduced for the water softener.

So, (please correct me if I haven't understood) even though some of the 15mm pipe is going to the cold part of the mixer tap, there will still be a full supply to the boiler due to the pressure from the mains. If I have this correct, then there wasn't much point in having a 22mm feed supplied. Or does that help to create the pressure.

Sorry for daft novice questions.

Stan

The 22mm was fine, as it should be supplying the raw water to the Kitchen etc.

I would have taken 22mm to the water softener then split 15 x 15 to the boiler and cold supply.

Saying that if the boiler can supply it's maximum then that's all it needs.

As said the problem will be what the boiler can deliver or not as will be the case.

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This is the spec for the EcoTec Plus 837 which I have fitted:

12.0 - 28.4kw - Flow Rate 15.2 litres/min
Sedbuk Band 'A'

Stan

15.2ltrs/min is with a ΔT rise 35c, so would be nearer the top end, dependant on mains temperature.

12.6ltrs/min is with a ΔT rise of 42c.

DHW is 37Kw.

Lets assume you are getting 15ltrs/min at 42c, you would get 2 average showers at 7.5ltrs/min, and if someone opens a hot tap elsewhere you get a cold shower.

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So, what I am really asking is, would there be ANY improvement if they had not reduced the initial 22mm down to 15mm?


If not, I guess that is what I have to live with. If there would be SOME improvement, how should I go about making that improvement? Can you put a 22mm supply into a softener (Mine is a Waterside). If this is not possible, can it be replaced with one that can take 22mm supply?

Thanks, Stan

most Waterside softeners take 22mm.

To answer the question, you will need to measure the flow rate in Ltrs/min from the hot tap/showers using some soft cold at the same time.

You should be looking at 15Ltrs/min from the boiler, and 3-4Ltrs/min softened cold.

Increasing the pipe size to the softener will increase the rate, but a waste of time if you are getting the above.

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Thanks. That is what I wanted to know. I will see if I can do some testing on the flow rate from the boiler.

Stan

Well I have done a quick test on the water flow.

With the hot tap turned full on in the shower, it took 90 seconds to fill a 15l bucket, so around 10l/m

Shower is on the ground floor - as is the boiler. Nothing else was running, nor the Central Heating. Does that confirm that the boiler can handle more flow?

Stan

Yes that's only a 2/3rds of the available boiler output.

Can you test the soft mains and the raw mains.

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Doing the same shower test with just the cold its about 12l/m - and it appears to be about the same with a warm shower. It will not be easy to test the raw mains, but this is a brand new supply on a 22mm pipe.

Thanks again, Stan