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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:47 pm 
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I was wondering if anyone has any experience in these machines.
I have one which I thought would be a good project to restore. I have stripped it down & now in the assemble stage
I remember undoing nuts holding grinding wheels on was difficult but I managed it by using lump hammer on spanner.
now rebuilding I am experiencing great difficulties refitting these nuts. It is as if the nuts are an interference fit on the shaft.
could someone maybe confirm this & if so is it a case that you must use heat to refit the nuts.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:49 pm 
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:welcomeuhm:

No idea myself. But I'm willing to bet that one of our regulars (retired/col) will be able to help...

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:23 pm 
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Col will know as w~o says.
Been a long time since I was shown how to change wheels as an apprentice, and that was on a similar type of machine. I've only ever done it on my own small bench grinders since.
I can't remember the nuts being that tight, or applying heat, although IIRC they are a good fit being specifically made for the thread, rather than a normal nut from a box of 100.
If they're that tight though I'd have thought there was a danger of over tightening the nuts onto the wheels, with possibly extremely dangerous results.



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:30 pm 
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[Polite cough.]

I am only asking, but is "Pointing at a specific forum member" the right thing to do? (Remember what happened last time, say no more)

Suppose for the sake of argument said person, is not familiar with a specific piece of equipment, would they not now feel the "spotlight" is pointing at them and as such feel obliged to give an answer even if they don't want to / too busy. [/polite cough]

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No such thing as "Thou shalt put this wire here, Thou shalt put that wire there" .............Take a picture BEFORE you do the job.

If gloom had a voice, it would be me. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:49 pm 
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someone-else wrote:
[Polite cough.]

I am only asking, but is "Pointing at a specific forum member" the right thing to do? (Remember what happened last time, say no more)

Suppose for the sake of argument said person, is not familiar with a specific piece of equipment, would they not now feel the "spotlight" is pointing at them and as such feel obliged to give an answer even if they don't want to / too busy. [/polite cough]


Nope... what happened last time ? Unless you are talking "chainmaile" ??

[/Politefuckcough}

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:09 pm 
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Hi,

Many thanks for the plug wine~o; much appreciated. :salute:

A bit of bad news dopey; your approach to this rebuild of the grinder is totally wrong; never ever go anywhere near grinding wheels with a spanner hit with an hammer.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Union-G8-8-double-ended-grinder-8-dia-wheel-3000-Rpm-/201663102338

I've never been one to preach safety but when it comes to grinding wheels these require a lot of care otherwise they can shatter with serious consequences and for anyone in the line of fire it's going to be a minimum of A&E.

As an apprentice mechanical engineer in the pit 55 years ago only one engineer was trained to change grinding wheels and I was taught early on to treat grinding wheels with respect.

I used to own one of the Union Jubilee double ended grinders seen at the link above. Having now finally and brutally removed the two grinding wheels from your grinder you'll have discovered the hard way one nut is right hand thread the other nut left hand thread. These nuts should never be over tightened only being nipped up and there should be paper washers installed; if as you describe the nuts have been done up so tightly as to need the use of an hammer to remove them then please dump the grinding wheels now; its highly possible the previous user has stopped the grinding wheels dead by jamming some metal hence the nuts will then be trouble to remove; please see this YouTube video regarding correct care of a grinding wheel which I hope helps.

I shudder just at the thought of applying heat; DON'T DO IT.



If I was doing the rebuild I would as in the video clock the arbors with my DTI (dial test indicator) to ensure they ran perfectly true; on an older machine I would also replace the bearings. I have both "star wheel" and "industrial diamond" grinding wheel dressers.

Please be extra careful dopey; I should hate you to end up posting on UHM from an hospital bed. Good luck. :thumbleft:

Thanks guys; yes I tend to get dropped in it from time to time but I don't mind in the least; the chainmaille punch I designed and made was certainly a one off and I'm keeping my head down because the tip of the HSS tool really did test my patience; I enjoyed the project though. Sorry though in this case and now knowing the problems already encountered this is one job I'll not be volunteering for; just the thought of hammer and heat puts me off. :cb

Thanks for looking out for me s-e; very much appreciated; :salute:

Kind regards, Col.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:21 pm 
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Thanks Col. I meant to add not to use the wheels after hammering like that myself. :thumbright:
Am I right in that the nuts were made to fit that specific machine? I know some of the older kit is very much more "fitted" than modern stuff.
I wonder as they're tight, if they've got swapped at sometime.



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:35 pm 
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Hi,

No problem Dave54 and thanks for asking a good question. :salute:

The short answer is that I don't know if special nuts were used.

My own thoughts though are given the age of this machine and it being a nice solid bit of genuine English kit the threads could well be Imperial whereas modern machines tend to favour Metric threads. The left hand thread is the one that really catches a novice out and the novice unwittingly then applies brute force without realizing it is being tightened and not slackened.

I was taught the dangers of grinding wheels so am very careful in what I add on the subject; I should hate any member to end up in hospital but better to inform dopey of the inherent dangers up front rather than dopey simply rebuild using the original grinding wheels which could prove highly dangerous; I can't stress enough just how dangerous an exploding grinding wheel can be.

Time I settled down with Bron to a movie before the day slips away; another busy day today but better than being bored or idle.

Kind regards, Col.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:37 pm 
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Hei, "dopey"
Whilst at this stage I'm not able to offer any advice, I do have what may be a close relative of your machine. Mine is due in the not too distant future to be pressed into service.
I'll get the info a s a p = when I can get at it, but in the meantime, mine looks somewhat like this one:
Attachment:
Union.2xGrinder.1.jpg
Union.2xGrinder.1.jpg [ 16.94 KiB | Viewed 492 times ]

tho' not 'graffiti' be-smirched.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:59 pm 
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Retired wrote:
My own thoughts though are given the age of this machine and it being a nice solid bit of genuine English kit the threads could well be Imperial whereas modern machines tend to favour Metric threads. ..

Colin, a slight aside, please.
Not long ago I was reading about Lord Nuffield - William Morris - and that whilst the nuts and bolts used in his factories were metric threads, the heads were designed to be compatible with Imperial spanners.



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:58 am 
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Hi,

Thanks AAA. Fasteners of all kinds is a huge industry; for a novice it can be bewildering; a simple thing like the difference between a set screw and a bolt can puzzle a novice; (set screws fully threaded; bolts partially threaded). I was brought up with Whitworth in the pit and the tool bags made of conveyor belt were always heavy to carry around. Nuts come in many styles as you mention; some special but the bulk are standard items; it's highly unlikely Harrison's would bother to use special nuts after all they would source their nuts rather than make them in-house. At Brook Motors where I worked we used lots of assorted fasteners; the JIT cells (Just in time) were serviced daily by a fastener company; the van would arrive and the guy would top up the cells as required not just on set screws etc but also things like cable glands; if I needed any fastener all I had to do was to ask; the discounts made all the fasteners very cheap indeed compared to retail such as Screwfix.

Many of my old machines I restored used Whitworth fasteners and I still have a selection of Whitworth spanners which are seldom used these days.

I have a beautiful Lorch Schmidt engineering lathe and when I first bought it I wrongly assumed the headstock and tailstock tapers to be Morse but they are specials which is causing me quite a few problems regarding tooling. :cb

Kind regards, Col.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:26 am 
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To the op's question - they will be left and right handed threads with the corresponding nut for each side unless the nut or thread is burred or stretched it shouldn't be a problem

I had the miss fortune of getting a cheap silverline bench grinder I have tried everything to get that thing to balance inc making sure the axle is true, new bearings, but the thing will not balance - moral to the story don't buy Chinese tat

ah, nuts and bolts I had a steep learning curve with whitworth of the ww2 vintage, to save on metal the heads are 1 size smaller, that drove me mad till the penny dropped

I now own thread gauges and a few Zeus books :-)



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:41 pm 
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Hi,

Just a quick reply for novices in this situation with tight or damaged threads. All it takes is a burr on a thread to cause problems; many times I've used a small three square (triangular) file or needle file to remove such damage; taps; dies and thread chasers though are the way to go but obviously expensive. I'll add a picture later of my thread chasers I use in the woodturning lathe. These are carbon steel and would also tidy up damaged metal threads. Here's some thread chasers for interest;

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=thread+chasers+metal&rlz=1C1MSIM_enGB700GB700&espv=2&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj79IfyyvbSAhUMAcAKHQ-IBrkQsAQIZA&biw=1920&bih=974&dpr=1

Kind regards, Col.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:06 pm 
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Hi,

Here's a couple of pictures of my thread chasers; I turned the beech handles to fit my turning tools; reminds me I must dust the workshop it's looking a bit scruffy but I'm too busy at the moment.

The lathe is my Union Graduate which I subjected to a full restoration upgrading to 1.5hp via a VFD; I brush painted it in machinery enamel because it was freezing outside preventing me from paint spraying; it's a joy to own and use.

Kind regards, Col.

Attachment:
DSCN2622.JPG
DSCN2622.JPG [ 217.28 KiB | Viewed 392 times ]
Attachment:
DSCN2623.JPG
DSCN2623.JPG [ 163.63 KiB | Viewed 392 times ]

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