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 Post subject: Hanging Doors...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:43 pm 
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Hello all! This is my first topic, other than my introductory one.

I’m an Apprentice Carpenter who was tasked with hanging my first few doors today at work. Things went “OK” but I don’t feel like there was an efficient or effective way to hang these doors that was standing out to me, I’m usually left to my own devices as I’m normally quite independent but there isn’t always someone around to seek guidance from either. I have some more to hang and install tomorrow too so I’m asking for some advice, “do’s and don’t’s”, any recommend tools on how to quickly and accurate hang doors, including handles, locks and latches etc...

Thanks in advance!


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 Post subject: Re: Hanging Doors...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:27 pm 
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heeelllooo and welcome Troy :welcome: :welcome: :welcome:
what are you skills level i assume its little tricks your after and not how to do the job :dunno:

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 Post subject: Re: Hanging Doors...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:01 pm 
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always put a leading edge on both the hinge side and the latch side.

it makes the doors swing and latch better and its possible to achieve nice gaps all around and also helps to stop the door being hinge bound on old frames. or even new ones if someone else has fitted them sh*t

what i do to achieve this accurately on more expensive doors is to use my track saw set to say 2 or 3 degrees and put the splinter strip to the edge of the door where the hinge knuckle would be and cut a slight bevel along the length.

obv for the latch side its the same sort of craic from the same face of the door.

you can also buy a router bit that achieves the same effect.

hinges i do 6 inches from the top and 9 from the bottom unless its going in an existing frame and tyhe hinge cutouts are neat i re use those so mark the door to suit. also for heavier doors one in the middle

to set where the hinges are going i pilot drill out 2 holes and screw to the door and then mark round with a sharp knife. carefully like. dont want any boboos

i router the hinge recess free hand with my 1/4 inch router. take it easy and with practice i achieve good results. if you were repeatedly fitting new doors in new frames a hinge jig would be good.

i always use my block plane to knock the arris off the edges of the doors. still see some joiners who do not do this and its fliping basic stuff to me.

also i either use a hand plane to neaten up any saw marks off the track saw or use my sander. my hand planes are number 4 1/2 and number 5 1/2 stanley planes. handy things. better finish than most electric planers

for cheap egg box doors always check where the lock block is. (been guilty of not on occasion myself :oops: :lol: )

when you fit latches if they come with the little black box for the keep then fit it. it looks much better. all ya gotta do is cut off the excess. you only need the little box bit and it makes them easier to fit.



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 Post subject: Re: Hanging Doors...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:17 pm 
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big-all wrote:
heeelllooo and welcome Troy :welcome: :welcome: :welcome:
what are you skills level i assume its little tricks your after and not how to do the job :dunno:


I’ve only been doing Carpentey since February this year and I’m pleased to say that I’ve learned a lot so as far as Skill level goes, I would say somewhere between a Novice and Intermediate. Still lots to learn though!

I don’t mind being shown how to do the job because I’ve not had much experience with the doors at the moment. Little tricks and full tutorials are welcome.


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 Post subject: Re: Hanging Doors...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:30 pm 
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I've seen butts marked out like fin described above, but it's always seemed slow to me: I mark the positions once the door has been shot in and is wedged into it's final place in the lining, mark both top and bottom with a 4H pencil - with an opened hinge I mark the door and the lining at the same time - then I use two mortice gauges, (one for width and one for depth, and sharpened, to make them more like a cutting gauge) to mark the rest of the cut out, one of those gauges has been cut down so I can also use it to mark the depth of the butt on the lining if it already has architraves fitted.

If you want speed with any repetitive process, like say hanging ten doors, complete one set of operations first, this keeps tool changes to a minimum. So shoot in all the doors and mark out the butts, chop all the butts in and then hang the doors.

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 Post subject: Re: Hanging Doors...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:19 am 
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I'd say not to worry too much about speed just at the moment . Concentrate on getting it fitted neatly and accurately and working as it should. You never hear someone say "my door binds , sticks , doesn't shut unless I shove it , has a big gap , but at least it was hung quickly". Speed will come with experience.
As to tips , even though I don't hang a great number of doors and my working life often went months or even years without doing one firstly I'd go with ayjay's comment about doing all the operations on multiple doors at the same time assuming the doors are reasonably close to each other. A lot of the doors I've fitted are generally in older frames and linings which as we know are often not perfect . For this reason I carrry a rebate plane for adjusting them . I also have a couple of coins and a few long shallow wedges. Plane the door to fit , coin on the top and wedge underneath leaves the gaps right mark the hinges.


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 Post subject: Re: Hanging Doors...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:50 am 
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From an amateur perspective I had a load of doors to do in a refurb I did. I planed them up to fit the openings using a pound coin as the gap guide and wedges. I then cut all the hinge rebates in one operation using a router and a jig I made for the job. The lock mortices took a bit longer but I used another router jig for the lock rebate and a spade bit for the locks. I cut the door frame hinge rebates by hand and it took all day just hang the seven doors, finishing off the next day mounting the handles and stuff.

I realised I was very slow when I was talking to a proper chippy who said he would hang ten doors complete in a day. Dunno if this was bullshit? It is all down to finding the best way that suits you that gives an acceptable speed and finish.

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 Post subject: Re: Hanging Doors...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:09 am 
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dewaltdisney wrote:
I realised I was very slow when I was talking to a proper chippy who said he would hang ten doors complete in a day. Dunno if this was bullshit? It is all down to finding the best way that suits you that gives an acceptable speed and finish.

DWD


It's doable without too many nightmares in the right situation. I once spent a couple of years mostly second fixing two bedroom flats (boring but very lucrative), the first job was always to hang the five firecheck doors, I always got those done before lunch on a Monday. It took 2.5 days to complete each flat so starting the next one was always on a Wednesday afternoon which consisted of hanging another five firecheck doors.

Lightweight doors are even quicker: from memory, I think I've managed 19 in one day, but as with everything the circumstances have to be right - if you're working in an occupied house, it all slows down considerably.

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 Post subject: Re: Hanging Doors...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:56 am 
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Crikey... I was slow then :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Hanging Doors...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:46 pm 
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dewaltdisney wrote:
Crikey... I was slow then :lol:

DWD


So was I, 40/50 years ago. :-)

I've always enjoyed hanging doors, I see it as almost an art-form, (and I get really annoyed when someone comes and holds one for me when I'm actually screwing it to the frame).

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 Post subject: Re: Hanging Doors...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:30 pm 
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ayjay, i should add that i would do them that way on say oak veneer doors. get tghe hinges in super tight then.

must say if it was a normal cheap door just a fine 4h pencil line does the job for me.

have you ever used one of those little butt gauges?

I did once hear a bloke tell me he had swung 10 doors before his 10 oclock bait. he wasnt very happy if i asked him if he started at 2 in the morning like. sometimes people bullshit ya without thinking what they on about


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 Post subject: Re: Hanging Doors...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:18 pm 
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fin wrote:
ayjay,
have you ever used one of those little butt gauges?

I did once hear a bloke tell me he had swung 10 doors before his 10 oclock bait. he wasnt very happy if i asked him if he started at 2 in the morning like. sometimes people bullshit ya without thinking what they on about


No, I tried a mates once, and decided I preferred a standard sized marking gauge.

I might have seen your mates work, just beat the crap out of the hinges with a hammer until they sink in a bit, (yes, I've seen it) drive the screws in with a hammer and that's it, screw it up.

56 doors is my record for a day - kitchen cupboard doors. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Hanging Doors...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:21 pm 
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19 doors in a day or 56 kitchen doors , well I have to take my hat off to you on that one. I don't think I've ever worked on a kitchen with that many doors and at best I hang 8 or 9 in a day. I suppose in my defence it's never been a big part of my work so haven't really had the chance to get fast , plus I normally do it all by hand . No routers for hinges and the like ( although it did get used recently to form the matching rebates on a pair) and the electric plane only really comes out if there's over 6mm to come off.
Hinge gauges ? Always used to use a block off wood with a countersunk screw in it.


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 Post subject: Re: Hanging Doors...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:29 pm 
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Grendel wrote:
Hinge gauges ? Always used to use a block off wood with a countersunk screw in it.


That's my fall back if some twerp has put the architrave too close to the edge, I use a drylining screw with the top flattened off to thin it down/sharpen it.

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 Post subject: Re: Hanging Doors...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:29 pm 
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fin wrote:
always put a leading edge on both the hinge side and the latch side.

Hmmm. That can make getting the face plate of a mortise lock in flat a bit of a problem IMHO. Hinge side maybe, lock side we generally don't do on doors up to 44mm unless they are hung on Parliament hinges (unlikely). Maybe OK on 35mm doors on domestics but no longer acceptable on commercials, fire doors and many new build apartments (which all tend to have 44mm throughout)

Hinges we set either 150 from the top and 225 from the bottom (like Fin) with the middle hinge set at either centre between top and bottom or at 150mm below the top (on doors with heavy action closers). Bear in mind that I don't do domestics and that the thinnest doors I hang are generally 44mm FD30 (30 minute fire doors)

Worth bearing in mind that the new(ish) fire door regs (which apply to commercials) call for door gapping on the sides and top to be 2 to 4mm, and 4mm maximum at the bottom. That effectively precludes to use of taper edges. For doors with brush strips you need to be #aiming for 3mm as the doors often won't close on 2mm. Graduated packers are a useful gauge

Tricks for locks and ironmongery - mark out on both sides and drill to the centre for the spindle holes on locks, security screws and the like as it will be more accurate. I have always got two combi squares with me for the task (300mm and 150mm). I also have a full set of Irwin spade bits for the hole drilling - these don't have a pull-in thread like the Bosch ones and work far better IMHO. Doing all the ironmongery on a posh commercial job at the moment, so I have a small notebook with sketches and dimensions of all them ironmongery noted (there are over two dozen combinations of doors and ironmongery - and the look has to be consistent). That way if I rock-up to a door I can get the schedule out and know exactly where to mark-out. For the dark timbers we are on (mahogany) I use 3in masking tape for visibility (also keeps pencil marks off the wood). Holes for ironmongery (handles, kick plates, finger plates, lock face plates, etc) I often "spot" drill using a self-centring Vix bit for accuracy. For the actual screws I have separate bit holders with bits for PZD#1 (often kick plates, finger plates, etc), PZD#2, PZD#3 (D-handle bolts, etc) and PH#2 (some ironmongery) with maybe another couple for hex bits and/or torx bits. I also keep a PZD#1, PZD#2 and Phillips#2 hand screwdriver in the box together with an Allen key set (for closers), an adjustable spanner (same) and a couple of flat bit screwdrivers as well (you can't drive brass slotted screws with a drill/driver unless you are looking for trouble - for the same reason don't screw on with an impact driver unless it is a 3- to 6-speed model, and even then extreme caution is required). Where stainless or solid brass screws are used the holes should be correctly piloted (so a selection of small twist bits is needed) and appropriate size steel screw used first, then backed-out and replaced by the right screw - this is because brass and stainless steel screws shear off easily and chewed heads on quality jobs are invariably "pulls". For kick plates cut two shallow wedges - these are tapped beneath the door and used to support the plates against the doors and aligned to the bottom of the door while you get the screws on. When working behind doors try to jam the door shut using your foot (or better still lock it) because you only get one set of fingers!

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