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 Post subject: Fuel Pumps / Points
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 7:37 pm 
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Greetings,

Had a few minutes to look at my poorly neglected motorbike and think I've FINALLY located what the issue is with it cutting and stalling while I'm out.

Basically, you can start it - fine
You can let it idle - fine
You can ride - fine

Then all of a sudden, it cuts like there is a fuel stavation/complete ignition failure. The bike will engine break and sometimes fire back into life and carry on or take 10 minutes to come back of starting.

Other times you can go out and it won't stop at all. No smoke, no other problems, oil/fluids clear.

Apparently you can get points for the fuel pump: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-YZF-R1 ... 1e72f11185

It's a common failure, but they look OK. Got the book out and it says the resistance of the pump should be 4-30 ohms at 20 degrees temp. It's about 18 outside, but it only came up with 2.1

I'm guessing that's quite bad - most of the ranges in the book for things are in the middle, seems low.

Question is........

Does it sound like that's duff/faulty?
Do points affect the resistance of the pump or is that a coil/winding thing?

Any other input welcome.....it's been driving me mad for a long time, hence it's sat still for almost 2 years...........

BG

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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Pumps / Points
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:02 pm 
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Bah - well, looks like every single forum say that the range is rubbish and it's a case of work/not work.

Give up.....looks like it'll stay in the garage for another 2 years.

:dunno:

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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Pumps / Points
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:20 pm 
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You need someone with a well running R1 to swap pumps with.
Have you checked the tank breather isn't blocked? Easy way to check is take it for a ride and when it plays up, open the fuel filler (you'll need your spare key). If it continues to play up at least you can eliminate that.


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Pumps / Points
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:23 pm 
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Also, if you think it could be ignition failure, you need to check the sidestand switch - they get full of muck and often cut the ignition when worn or neglected.


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Pumps / Points
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:41 pm 
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Chappy wrote:
You need someone with a well running R1 to swap pumps with.
Have you checked the tank breather isn't blocked? Easy way to check is take it for a ride and when it plays up, open the fuel filler (you'll need your spare key). If it continues to play up at least you can eliminate that.


Good idea with breather - will double check with spare key.

Wouldn't have a clue with someone else with bike same - it's a 2001 model, so not something you see a lot, plus I don't do biker mates anymore (all grown up and old).

BG

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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Pumps / Points
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:14 pm 
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Had exactly same problems with my K75 and traced eventually to a connector, on the harness to the pump, below the seat and frame, cured by just plier squeezing the female side.
Previous years, I had let the bike stand a while with low fuel level, the tank hoses went to goo, also I thought I had been clever by using some Super grade fuel but guessing the ethanol or whatever had attacked the hoses.


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Pumps / Points
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:23 pm 
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Cheers aero.

I guess it's just methodical testing and checking then :angryfire:

I'm loathe to take it into a place to check after 2 previous experiences. Paid one big and one indie to check it as I thought performance sucked (beat by an R6 in a drag race) and neither of them found a problem (that's if they even bothered to look). Said it was my imagination and he was lucky.

Turned out it was a half duff coil pack, that I found myself after it driving me mad - it was like a new bike after.

Back to the book and checking then......hate getting dirty too, which makes it 10x worse :(

BG

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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Pumps / Points
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:36 pm 
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I told you to check the breather two years ago :lol:

Is it carbs or EFI? ?

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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Pumps / Points
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:41 pm 
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I'm slow..... :?

To be honest, I needed a distraction so went to have a look.

Carbs!

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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Pumps / Points
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:50 pm 
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If its cutting dead without a cough I'd be looking at an ignition problem. Fuel starvation is unlikely to affect all four carbs at exactly the same time.

I seem to remember recommending bridging the side stand cut out. They can cause havoc if the contacts get corroded :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Pumps / Points
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:59 am 
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'Carbs', my bad, my 1991 K75 was fuel injection and I thought all later performance bikes would have been; for sure my bike would just cut at the most embarrassing times with the loss of pump power and I would just have to drift to the curb side; good point Razor, I imagine with carbs there might be a bit more of a hesitation before flame out.


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Pumps / Points
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:33 am 
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I had a 1987 K75s. It was one of my fave work bikes :thumbright:

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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Pumps / Points
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:34 pm 
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Razor wrote:
If its cutting dead without a cough I'd be looking at an ignition problem. Fuel starvation is unlikely to affect all four carbs at exactly the same time.

I seem to remember recommending bridging the side stand cut out. They can cause havoc if the contacts get corroded :wink:



Deffo not kick stand switch - when it cuts out, I can turn the bike over. If that was duff, it kills the ignition circuit!

BG

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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Pumps / Points
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 3:14 pm 
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Well.....interesting!

After a long convo with my brother, he thought the pump was sounding suss - fuel issues.

Couldn't leave it alone today, so went back out for another look. The book says - to definitively test the pump, provide a spare 12V feel to the wires via jumper wires. Two wires - black (-) and blue/black (+ve). Easy.

Got me a 12v battery, fully charged and working - plugged it in - smoke. Arse. Took out 2 15A fuses in the process :angryfire:

Pump now reads 0.02Ohms - so I'm going to say it's utterly goosed. Won't operate at all now.

I wonder if this was struggling/sticking at higer flow rates (when it used to go) as opposed to idle (never had an issue). The cutoff/protection relay may have been killing power to it to protect the bike/circuit like it's meant too.

Either way.....it ain't going anywhere now until I get another fuel pump.

Solved the 'should I shouldn't I replace it' conundrum.

BG

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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Pumps / Points
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 5:15 pm 
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Found one!!!

Looked around and most of them are manky 10+ year old breaker parts. Found the spec and realised that R6 pumps are exactly the same spec, bar the in/out orientation.

Used R1 pump - 65 clams, untested
New R6 pump - 37 clams, 1 yr warrenty

Should be here in the next few days.....

BG :cheers:

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