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 Post subject: Floating Desk
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:08 pm 
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Hi
Looking to add a floating desk in my study. To be supported by 3 walls around 2m long, then to add shelves above.

Desk will support monitors and the like and the shelving for books and files. Not too much weight but we do have kids who like to climb!

Thinking of buying 2 beech worktops from Wickes £90 each. One for the desk, and cutting one in half for the shelving.

For the desk will use 2x1 batons, longest wall is block with plasterboard (its the internal supporting wall of the double garage, where study now is) other appears solid, smaller is plasterboard.

Concerned that it will bow over time and the boss (wife) doesn't want legs.
Therefore been looking at upright shelving, Aspect branded from Ironmongery direct, along with some 470mm brackets for the desk and 220mm brackets for the shelves.
Not sure if still need batons for desk, was thinking of using on side only.

Does this sound like a feasible plan? If so how many uprights/brackets should I be looking at buying along with fixings?

Or any other suggestions?
Screwfix do some 500x300 heavy duty brackets that would hold the worktop, but thinking upright would be easier?
Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Floating Desk
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:39 pm 
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You say not too much weight and follow that up by saying you'll be using (solid) beech worktops....

TBH you can get the main support from a 2 x 1in (3 x 1in or 2 x 2in would be better) along the back wall and I think that would help reduce the loading on the shelving components as well which would be no bad thing.

As you surmise supporting the middle can be done using twin slot Spur-type shelving and long brackets (for anyone interested Ironmongery Direct mentioned by the OP are generally a lot cheaper than SFX or Wickes - they sell Aspect and Elfa brands) using something like 570mm brackets.

As you intend to use these for shelving you'd be as well off setting them at something like 400mm centres to ensure that the shelves aren't so long between supports that they sag under load. Expected sag can be calculated using the Sagulator. One of the big plus points of using Spur-type shelving is that over, say, a 6ft/1800mm wall you tend to get about 10 fixings - on plasterboard walls with the right fixings ("umbrellas") this means you can carry quite a load, especially if you box clever and align some of your uprights so that you are screwing into the studs

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 Post subject: Re: Floating Desk
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:14 pm 
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Thanks for your quick reply.
Just trying to do the easiest way, and agree Ironmongery Direct seems to be decent prices.

Think I'm looking at 6 uprights, with 470mm brackets (they don't do Aspect 570mm). Along with 220mm or 270mm for the 300mm shelves directly above.
Main wall is plasterboard and blocks, any suggestions of fixings?


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 Post subject: Re: Floating Desk
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:17 pm 
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you could avoid any brackets or legs underneath and have a small shelve or drawer unit in the middle
or even an offcut off the worktop in the middle it could be set back 1/3 distance
you could even assuming its 600mm deep so it would be 400mm you could further reduce the visual and indeed add a bit off design
by from the top off the bracket chamfering back at 45% or in an arc so at 100mm back and 100mm down it will now be half the depth so far less visible

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 Post subject: Re: Floating Desk
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:07 pm 
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Thanks, but boss says no legs, or units underneath.
Think I'm going down the line of the uprights, once I figure out how to do.


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 Post subject: Re: Floating Desk
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:20 pm 
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guy999 wrote:
Main wall is plasterboard and blocks, any suggestions of fixings?

By that do you mean dot and dab (where the plasterboard is affixed to the blockwork by plasterboard adhesive)? If so what is the distance between the blocks and the back of the plasterboard?

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 Post subject: Re: Floating Desk
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:57 pm 
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other thoughts
assuming the top is at least 500 deep you can have shelves underneath off perhaps 150-225 deep without restricting space underneath for feet or a desk chair
you can also use a center support holding the top up to support these shelves
shelves underneath should be avoided for day to day use but great for occasional use

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 Post subject: Re: Floating Desk
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:58 pm 
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Thanks yes dot and dab. Guess space is 1 to 2 cm.


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 Post subject: Re: Floating Desk
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:17 pm 
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Shelves underneath as well, now that's a thought, thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Floating Desk
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:27 pm 
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guy999 wrote:
Thanks yes dot and dab. Guess space is 1 to 2 cm.

Wherever possible you should be trying to fix into the blockwork and not depending on the plasterboard alone to hold the brackets up. So if you can pick-up the dabs in a vertical row it will be possible to drill through the plasterboard and adhesive into the blockwork and then to fix the Spur-type uprights using 7mm brown plugs (6, 6.5 or 7mm drill bit depending on how dense the blocks are - the smaller ones are necessary on softer block) and long 4.5mm screws. 4.5mm screw heads seem to be the biggest screw heads that the countersunk recess that Aspect uprights (for certain) will accommodate. The longest 4.5mm screws I've seen are 120mm, and that's what I'd be looking at using (because you will lose about 20mm for for the upright, 12mm for the PB and 10 to 20mm for the gap - a total of 42 to 52mm, possibly more). If a single brown plug per hole doesn't provide enough grip you might even need to resort to 2 or possibly 3 plugs. Only on the softest of blocks might it be necessary to resort to using special expanding blockwork plugs.

Where there is no dab beneath the plasterboard it will be worthwhile looking at either one of those nylon "scrunch-up" plugs, such as these:

Attachment:
Fischer Nylon Plasterboard Plug 001_01.jpg
Fischer Nylon Plasterboard Plug 001_01.jpg [ 31.45 KiB | Viewed 718 times ]

Attachment:
Fischer UX Plug 001_01.jpg
Fischer UX Plug 001_01.jpg [ 42.35 KiB | Viewed 718 times ]

Attachment:
Fischer Duopower Plug 001_01.jpg
Fischer Duopower Plug 001_01.jpg [ 47.62 KiB | Viewed 718 times ]


of which the DuoPower is the best (all available from Toolstation). You might also want to consider "umbrella" fixings:

Attachment:
Rawlplug hollow wall anchior 001_01.jpg
Rawlplug hollow wall anchior 001_01.jpg [ 9.76 KiB | Viewed 718 times ]


although they ideally require a setting tool:

Attachment:
Rawlplug AT-88 setting tool 001_01.png
Rawlplug AT-88 setting tool 001_01.png [ 76.31 KiB | Viewed 718 times ]


They do, however, need about 25mm behind the PB for the shortest (37mm) fixings which may be a no-go for you.

As you can see there really isn't a one size suits all approach to this. In the worst cases I've sometimes had to resort to cutting out sections of PB and dot and dab, fixing thin ply to the blockwork, reboarding then filling - but that really and truly is the last resort

As far as it goes Spur-type uprights would easily handle shelves below the top - and doing that would increase the load-bearing capacity of the uprights. Surely a positive?

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 Post subject: Re: Floating Desk
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:24 am 
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Thanks, have some 'umbrella' type and the tool, got some on sale in Homebase a few years ago. Dont think they will fit though.
Have some no8 / no 10 x 4inch screws, these may work. Not exactly sure about metric equivalents though.

If i put shelves under the worktop, how would this increase the load bearing of the uprights. As the weight on the uprights would now be greater. Guess this is to do with a balanced weight, but could you explain in simple terms.
Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Floating Desk
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:46 pm 
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guy999 wrote:
Thanks, have some 'umbrella' type and the tool, got some on sale in Homebase a few years ago. Dont think they will fit though.

Yes, that's maybe the problem - even with the shortest ones available (37mm) you need about 25mm clearance at the back. You can sometimes get this by drilling through the plasterboard and then into the blockwork beyond, but not always.

guy999 wrote:
Have some no8 / no 10 x 4inch screws, these may work. Not exactly sure about metric equivalents though

Sorry, I generally quote metric these days as everything we get in now is metric. #8 is about 4.2mm (so the nearest is a 4.0 or 4.5mm screw) whilst #10 is about 5.0mm

guy999 wrote:
If i put shelves under the worktop, how would this increase the load bearing of the uprights. As the weight on the uprights would now be greater. Guess this is to do with a balanced weight, but could you explain in simple terms.

Ideally to spread the load on the wall you want the longest uprights (with the maximum number of fixings) that you can accommodate. By running the uprights below the level of the top you woll not only gain more anchor points, but the uprights themselves will reduce any tendency for the brackets holding the top to turn or bend downwards.

One thing I didn't point out is that with Spur-type shelving you really do need to get one upright in first and properly plumbed-up, bearing in mind that the wall may have hollows or bumps and not itself be plumb. Doing this may involve the use of packing shims (horseshoe packers) in extreme instances (generally on old, lime-plastered walls, though). Once you've got one plumbed up, the remaining uprights all need to be set in a line with that - checked by running a string line across the front. I often start by getting one end right, then the other and making everything in between just kiss the string line. If your uprights aren't plumb, the brackets cannot be level and they won't work properly

or possibly even a

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"Success is 99% failure" - Soichiro Honda


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 Post subject: Re: Floating Desk
PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:24 pm 
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Thanks for your help again, great advice.

Luckily the wall is flat and smooth so shouldnt have much of a problem (fingers crossed).
Did fit some cheapo ebay spur type shelving in my garage last year, for what it is and used for its ok. But couldnt understand why when the screw holes on 4 uprights were spot on the shelving didnt appear right. Turned out that on one of the uprights, the slots were out of sync/size to the others. But they were cheap!

But this time trying to do things right!


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