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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:39 pm 
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Hi,

I am not a carpenter. With that declaration in place, I am wanting to pick your brains on how I should install a solid oak door lining for internal doors. To put this into context, If I was installing softwood and planning to paint it white, I would follow most of the videos on YouTube and screw the frame into the wall and then use filler and ultimately paint. Presumably I can't use filler as it will show up in my case?
Since, I want to maintain my oak finish, can I screw this in the centre of the frame and then glue my door stop strip on top? I thought that this would hide the screws and preserve the solid oak finish. I am unusre on whether it is a) advisable to only fix the frame in the centre and b) to glue the stop strip.

Thanks in advance.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:13 pm 
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If you are using full door stops then you've got a bigger area to screw and hide with the stops. However if your stops are say 45x12 then fixing in the centre of the frame is fine providing you are getting a good fixing and the frame is packed adequately. 5 fixings per side is ample.
How wide is the frame? One fixing in the centre is fine up to a maximum of 120mm wide door frames.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:44 pm 
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Ideally you want a plug cutter and countersink set. You then drill the holes, countersink them, screw the frame into position, cut the oak plugs from a spare piece of timber, then glue these in place. (covers the screwhole completely) Then you can sand the plugs down level with the timber,,, and Robert's your proverbial uncle. :wink: :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:49 am 
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There are a few tinned compound and hard wax fillers that may look adequate after finish is applied but ideally you need to plug the holes with plugs you have cut yourself or personally I would probably just by a length of dowel.
If you do use plugs or dowel don't forget to match the grain direction when you glue them in.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:57 am 
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tcm wrote:

If you do use plugs or dowel don't forget to match the grain direction when you glue them in.



I'm intrigued: how do you match the grain when using dowel? :scratch:

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 3:48 pm 
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Just glue hole, rotate plug or dowel till it looks best, then wait for glue to set and cut flush and sand.
Plugs will look better as you can cut them across the grain whereas dowels tend to be made down the grain.
However you have to go to the trouble of making your plugs and as long as you pick a dowel of the same or a contrasting wood it should end up ok.
You can get lengths of oak dowel from eBay for around £3 delivered or a, budget level, boxed full set of plug cutters seems good value from Amazon at £7.34.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 6:45 pm 
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Interesting, that. On a trade job were I to do it that way I'd immediately have the job pulled as sub standard, you know. You can actually buy strips of cross-grained taper plugs which look a lot better than the end grain of dowels, although there is still no guarantee that the grain and colour/tone of these will be anything like your timber, but it will be a lot closer than the dowel approach. To use they are chopped off with a sharp chisel or a flush-cut saw (e.g. Irwin Japanese flush cut saw)
Attachment:
Cross Grained Hardwood Dowels.jpg
Cross Grained Hardwood Dowels.jpg [ 13.1 KiB | Viewed 2180 times ]

Suppliers include Appleby Turnings and many of the hardwood flooring specialists, e.g. Pure Tree.

In fact it's better still to use a taper plug cutter and make your own, if necessary out of the back (hidden) side of a piece of material. Firms like Trend sell halfway decent tube plug cutters which can be used in a cordless drill. For door casings I'd probably use something like a Trend Snappy #12 drill countersink and cut the matching 1/2in plugs with a Trend Snappy 1/2in tube plug cutter (SNAP/PC/127T) rather than the 2- or 4-prong plug cutters which are designed to be used in a drill press (and are dangerous when used in a hand drill)
Attachment:
Trend Snappy drill countersink.jpg
Trend Snappy drill countersink.jpg [ 11.1 KiB | Viewed 2180 times ]

Attachment:
Trend Snappy 1_2in tube plug cutter.jpg
Trend Snappy 1_2in tube plug cutter.jpg [ 36.61 KiB | Viewed 2180 times ]

I must stress the importance of buying the drill and plug cutter from the same manufacturer if at all possible in order to get a snugly-fitting plug - it seems that 1/2in isn't always 1/2in!

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 7:22 pm 
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actually ive got one of the 4 prong type cutters ayjay. well... ive had several. the trend snappy stuff seems to gain its legs and walk off.... i must have had 5 full sets of counter sinks and atleast a few sets with the plug cutters in.

ive not had a problem really. it can be a tiny bit flighty but i found if i put the drill on quick and start at a slight angle and straighten up then theres no problem at all.

having not used one of the other type itd be interesting to compare them. do they get as snug a fit as the type i have?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:08 pm 
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Thanks for the cross-grained plug source, I'll have to remember that one.

Personally I don't really like the pronged plug cutters for cutting the hole either, I'd much rather do as you mentioned and use a suitably sized countersink or occasionally a separate drill bit.

That's a good point about the flush-cut saw.
I should have mentioned, do not attempt to cut off plugs or dowels with a normal saw or the kerf of the blade will likely mark the material you are plugging.
Either get a flush-cut saw or cut off a bit away from your material and either pare back with a chisel or sand down or a combination of the two.
Whatever you use taper the edges with some sandpaper before using it'll help you Insert them.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 8:57 am 
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fin wrote:
having not used one of the other type itd be interesting to compare them. do they get as snug a fit as the type i have?

Not bad. I just find them somewhat safer to use - especially if you are cutting hundreds of plugs. They are relatively easy to sharpen with a slip stone. Maybe I'm just becoming risk averse as I near my dotage......

tcm wrote:
I should have mentioned, do not attempt to cut off plugs or dowels with a normal saw or the kerf of the blade will likely mark the material you are plugging.
Either get a flush-cut saw or cut off a bit away from your material and either pare back with a chisel or sand down or a combination of the two.

I actually do it slightly differently. Even Jap flu
ush cut saws have a slight kerf (which can mark the surface of the timber being fixed), but if you run the on top of an old playing card or thin piece of cardboard (e.g. centre of a screw box lid) you can side-step the issue

In terms of dealing with gaps after it's dried (should that happen), I've always favoured coulered filling waxes mixed to match, such as those by Liberon, but preferably applied after the finish coating has been done. That way you can get a near perfect colour match

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 3:04 pm 
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I've been using the Stanley straight plug cutters for years. OK as long as you have the correct sized drill, - and a drill press handy. Always meant to get some tapered cutters and never got round to it.
All types look like they could take chunks out of your fingers if allowed to.
I use an "ordinary" flush cut saw, with something thin under it similar to J & K. Wax filler after the finish as well. By far the best method I've found, with the slight caveat that you have to be careful that you don't get a higher polish on that area due to the wax.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 3:14 pm 
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I use a sharp chisel to flush off plugs then finish with some sand paper.
I usually take the plugs from an off cut of the timber being used if possible as well.
Best to hide the fixings with door stops tho if possible!

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 3:39 pm 
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i normally use a block plane to take em down to almost flush. then use a sander on em.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2015 4:34 pm 
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Yes, I usually use a block plane after cutting. I find a chisel can follow the grain a bit if you're not careful, and you end up with some broken fibres on the surface. Whatever works though.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:33 pm 
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Thanks for all the responses.
My door lining is currently 60mm wide but becuase I am having one side of the walls tiled, I thought it would be wise to wait for the tiling depth to be added and then get a slightly wider door frame so that the archtrave is nice and flush. I hope there arent any flaws in this plan.

Returning to my orginal query, I am inclined to screw under a regular door stop (where it wil be situated) and then glue on the door stop and not have to worry about any plugging, sanding, etc. Do I get your blessings on this approach?

By the way, sorry for not replying sooner. I hadn't checked the option to email me upon a response being posted and was actually starting to feel despondent...Thanks again!

Will watch out for the replies.

Asad


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