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 Post subject: Exterior work
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:30 am 
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I think I'm officially done with outsides now especially wood. Too hot, too cold, too humid, too much moisture.

Just been back to a job where I did a load of windows, thought I'd prepped very well but half the bottom beads were cracked, split and bubbled. This was a Zinsser system.

Conclusion is cheap/crappy wood with tonnes of movement, thought the Allcoat would have held better.

Customer isn't bothered and we agreed to just maintain it each year and not hope for too much.

But it does fill me with dread when I get asked to do more wood especially if your relying on scaffolding. Last thing I want is system failing and forking out for scaffolding to put it right.

So therefore as the Dragons say "I'm out"

Feel better for it too.

Rant over...... ps big up to the guys/girls who continually make it work. :thumbright:


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 Post subject: Re: Exterior work
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:11 pm 
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I'm thinking the same way. Fed up of going to see jobs where the exterior has been neglected for so long and you are expected to work miracles. Just finished a huge exterior where the timber Georgian windows had not been painted for over twenty years. Had to chop out all the rot, apply wood hardener, preservative and tons of two part filler, power sand, fill, power sand some more, endless prep. Soul destroying.


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 Post subject: Re: Exterior work
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:56 pm 
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I think that what happens is that you wake up one morning and realise that life really is too short for whatever.
Having a good, strong "No" is an essential part of every craftsman's toolkit.

I'm not a painter and decorator, but I used to do my own exterior woodwork.
As you say, endless prep, to see it back to square one after a fairly short time.
Fitted placcy windows to our place, and never looked back.



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 Post subject: Re: Exterior work
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:03 pm 
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ian gibson wrote:
I'm thinking the same way. Fed up of going to see jobs where the exterior has been neglected for so long and you are expected to work miracles. Just finished a huge exterior where the timber Georgian windows had not been painted for over twenty years. Had to chop out all the rot, apply wood hardener, preservative and tons of two part filler, power sand, fill, power sand some more, endless prep. Soul destroying.


And after all that effort the paint could still fail......


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 Post subject: Re: Exterior work
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:05 pm 
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Dave54 wrote:
I think that what happens is that you wake up one morning and realise that life really is too short for whatever.
Having a good, strong "No" is an essential part of every craftsman's toolkit.

I'm not a painter and decorator, but I used to do my own exterior woodwork.
As you say, endless prep, to see it back to square one after a fairly short time.
Fitted placcy windows to our place, and never looked back.


It's exactly how I feel. I'm going to find something else to fill that void that I might actually enjoy...is it possible????


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 Post subject: Re: Exterior work
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:31 pm 
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Desmondo15 wrote:
Dave54 wrote:
I think that what happens is that you wake up one morning and realise that life really is too short for whatever.
Having a good, strong "No" is an essential part of every craftsman's toolkit.

I'm not a painter and decorator, but I used to do my own exterior woodwork.
As you say, endless prep, to see it back to square one after a fairly short time.
Fitted placcy windows to our place, and never looked back.


It's exactly how I feel. I'm going to find something else to fill that void that I might actually enjoy...is it possible????

A pint of real ale outside a local hostelry, and sit and watch other people painting woodwork would be my choice! :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Exterior work
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:53 pm 
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Dave54 wrote:
Desmondo15 wrote:
Dave54 wrote:
I think that what happens is that you wake up one morning and realise that life really is too short for whatever.
Having a good, strong "No" is an essential part of every craftsman's toolkit.

I'm not a painter and decorator, but I used to do my own exterior woodwork.
As you say, endless prep, to see it back to square one after a fairly short time.
Fitted placcy windows to our place, and never looked back.


It's exactly how I feel. I'm going to find something else to fill that void that I might actually enjoy...is it possible????

A pint of real ale outside a local hostelry, and sit and watch other people painting woodwork would be my choice! :mrgreen:


Ahh perfect!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Exterior work
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:59 pm 
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Desmondo15 wrote:
And after all that effort the paint could still fail......


Yes. And even worse when the wood has aged, whatever you do does not want to last. However, as an amateur, I am not sure I would go for zinsser for this that 'n the other. The zinsser chemists worked out a good formula for two primers (BIN with shellac and waterbased with whatever, OK and an oil based primer). At some point marketing and the accountants in the company take over, and they will produce more and more stuff based on the two or three basic products they have. I would be inclined to use the products of a company that has always done what the product is meant to do, and yup, I will miss the latest innovation but there again it is not my livelihood. Experimenting may mean I have to do it again or if it was my job the client has to pay again or my reputation suffers.

Just sticking my (wh)oar in :lol: :lol:



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 Post subject: Re: Exterior work
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:06 pm 
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OchAye wrote:
Desmondo15 wrote:
And after all that effort the paint could still fail......


Yes. And even worse when the wood has aged, whatever you do does not want to last. However, as an amateur, I am not sure I would go for zinsser for this that 'n the other. The zinsser chemists worked out a good formula for two primers (BIN with shellac and waterbased with whatever, OK and an oil based primer). At some point marketing and the accountants in the company take over, and they will produce more and more stuff based on the two or three basic products they have. I would be inclined to use the products of a company that has always done what the product is meant to do, and yup, I will miss the latest innovation but there again it is not my livelihood. Experimenting may mean I have to do it again or if it was my job the client has to pay again or my reputation suffers.

Just sticking my (wh)oar in :lol: :lol:


Coverstain is their best exterior primer and Allcoat is highly recommended, the 2 work together also. But still it wasn't enough in some areas, a small %.



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 Post subject: Re: Exterior work
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:10 pm 
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Desmondo15 wrote:
Coverstain is their best exterior primer and Allcoat is highly recommended, the 2 work together also. But still it wasn't enough in some areas, a small %.
Do you mean when the wood is past its best or "in some areas" as in too much exposure to sun or rain etc. The problem is you need 5+ years (yes, more/less?) to know if an exterior system works.



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 Post subject: Re: Exterior work
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:35 pm 
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If the wood is pretty sound then most exterior paints will suffice. Important to remember that bog standard oil undercoat is no good for exteriors as it is not flexible enough. The problems really start when you have neglected rotting timber and if you don't do it properly it won't last long. Remove the rot, coat it with wood hardener, coat it with preservative, use two part filler (car body stuff works really well) and use one of the many flexible primer/undercoats and glosses. Zinsser allcoat is brilliant stuff but I've yet to use it on poorly maintained timber. I've heard other painters say they've had problems with coverstain failing on exteriors.



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 Post subject: Re: Exterior work
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 8:11 am 
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i'm the same.I've got to do a converted chapel in a few weeks & then possibly one more then that's it. I don't mind doing the work.It's working off ladders & the older i get the more i see how dangerous it is. The price of scaffolding is so expensive as well.A lot of the time it's more expensive than the actual painting job.



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 Post subject: Re: Exterior work
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:24 am 
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I start my last out door job tomorrow 2/3 days work and thats it no more. I will probably still do the odd front door or garage doors for existing customers if needed and thats it. :thumbup:



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 Post subject: Re: Exterior work
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:16 pm 
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dubman2 wrote:
i'm the same.I've got to do a converted chapel in a few weeks & then possibly one more then that's it. I don't mind doing the work.It's working off ladders & the older i get the more i see how dangerous it is. The price of scaffolding is so expensive as well.A lot of the time it's more expensive than the actual painting job.


Scaffolding is becoming too expensive on a lot of jobs, everyone deserves to be safe. I can never see how windows can be done to the same standard off a ladder, maybe I'm wrong but it's a long time to stand on a rung - my feet go numb - too many pies.


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 Post subject: Re: Exterior work
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:17 pm 
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bitzz wrote:
I start my last out door job tomorrow 2/3 days work and thats it no more. I will probably still do the odd front door or garage doors for existing customers if needed and thats it. :thumbup:


Amen to that :thumbright:


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