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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:28 pm 
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Hi everyone. Not sure if this has been covered before, but I couldn't find any mention of it.

My niece is having a new kitchen fitted and was asking about sockets for a built in dishwasher and built in washing machine.
My advice was to have a new socket installed behind each unit, fed from a fused/switched spur above the worktop for isolation under fault conditions. I also recognise that it is reportable work as it is in a kitchen.
The kitchen designer/fitter informed her that they won't be doing that as they run an extension to under the sink where they wire the units in. Apparently "This is how they do it now". Each appliance will be either side of the sink.
This is obviously a cheap workaround to avoid having to do notifiable work. I am an industrial maintenance electrician and work on many installations/machines where they have their own internal distribution system and is simply connected into the building distribution system by an isolation switch or plug, but I never thought that they would start this practice in domestic kitchens.
The extension under the sink rings all sorts of alarm bells with me, but I can't find anything to say that it is wrong.
The only thing I can advise on is to make sure that the combined load of the 2 units doesn't exceed 3kW if fed from a single 13A plug.
I find the use of extension leads in a fixed installation is a bodge. I did hear somewhere that any socket added in a kitchen has to be fixed to the wall (ie not fitted in units) but can this be applied to an extension lead?
Anyone got any thoughts or ideas of rules they may be breaking, apart from common sense?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:50 pm 
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Hello
Not an electrician, but it sound a bodge to me there is a leaflet on it here
https://dms.niceic.com/0000000043.pdf says any socket should be 30cm horizontally from the sink
Think it might be stated in the electricians guide to the building regulations page 56
Your other points are equally valid.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:09 pm 
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Thanks for that. I did find that on Googling, but the 30 cm rule is more for installed sockets.

That is the rub, every rule I think I can throw at them goes out of the window because it is an extension lead rather than an installed socket, and I do think that is why they are doing it.

The regs do talk about zones etc, but again, it is based on installation work and concentrates on bath/shower rooms (although why someone in their right mind would run an extension under a bath), even though you can have electrical installation under a bath under certain conditions.

There may be something about kitchen sinks, but I don't have a copy of the regs at home and Googling hasn't turned much up.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:35 pm 
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Just seen something that says due to changes in April 2013 a kitchen is no longer reportable under part P.

So, could I just install 2 fused spurs myself, as an electrician, without it being reportable?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:15 pm 
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https://www.niceic.com/Niceic.com/media ... tsheet.pdf
Thats what it appears to be saying but as I am not an electrician I am not really qualified to say, would building control confirm if you just ring them ? Will you be able to get to everything you need to post installation ?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:06 am 
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In England the kitchen is no longer a special place, it can be altered without informing the LABC new circuits, bathrooms, and consumer units need notifying, kitchens and out doors now removed.

In Wales it still applies, however any fixed wiring needs notifying, so plug in an extension lead that's OK, put some screws in the wall and hang it up out of harms way, and put a few cable clips to hold the cable also out of harms way, and it is now fixed so needs notifying.

However pre-installed is allowed, so kitchen units with sockets built in and plugged into sockets in wall gets around the Part P law in Wales a firm called Blagdon does this for pond stuff, all comes pre-wired so gets around the law.

Scotland has it's own laws as well. So to answer question does need a location.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:01 pm 
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CJJ wrote:
Just seen something that says due to changes in April 2013 a kitchen is no longer reportable under part P.

So, could I just install 2 fused spurs myself, as an electrician, without it being reportable?


:welcomeuhm:

Ideally a separate fused switched spur on the ring main above the countertop dropping a spur to a single socket for each appliance.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:13 pm 
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CJJ wrote:
Just seen something that says due to changes in April 2013 a kitchen is no longer reportable under part P.

So, could I just install 2 fused spurs myself, as an electrician, without it being reportable?


If it's in England its not notifiable. The sockets are fine in the cupboard and often are better there as when they are behind the appliance they sometimes stop the appliance going fully back.

If the sockets are in the cupboard then there is no need for the switched fused spurs as you can easily isolate the appliance by going into the cupboard.


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