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 Post subject: Extend a ring main
PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:24 pm 
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Hi

First post!

Any one know If I can extend a ring main into a new conservatory without falling foul of the dreaded Part P regs?

I have a bungalow and a single ring circuit for 13amp sockets with a 32amp mcb and the same for lighting!

I realise if I replace the consumer unit it would fall under the regs so understandably i'm trying to avoid this!

Cheers

Neil


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:31 pm 
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Sorry not a 32amp mcb for lighting a 6amp!

Getting tired now! ::b

Neil


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:38 pm 
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Replacing the CU, I'd get a sparkie.

If you do it yourself, which you are entitled to, you have to inform Building Regs and they will charge for it, but they MUST appoint a spark to test your work. It's their responsibility not your, in fact it's against regulations for you to ask a spark to test your work for part p.

The only way round it is to do it and tell no one. :?

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darrenc wrote:
I dont think its a stupid question but does show a lack of understanding of how paint works and reasons for certain applications, now dont jump down my throat Jaegar i'm not being funny its just a classic case in point of a well educated professionally trained painter against a general tradesman.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:56 pm 
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Thanks for the quick reply :grin:

I wouldn't replace the cu If It wasn't neccessary and i guess what i'm trying to say is do I actually need to? ie. can i just extend the ring into the new conservatory? I mean is there any other factor apart from the 7200 watt limit on a ring main.I want to put in about seven double sockets!! :shock:

Regarding part p regs ::b
I seem to get differing advice from Gov web sites so am at a loss what is right or wrong! The way i see it i'm not adding a new circuit, just sockets and lights to an existing circuit. It does seem like a grey area to me!

Cheers

Neil


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:55 am 
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sounds ok to me

its not a kitchen or a bathroom and you are adding to existing sockets

no need to notify


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:07 am 
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One socket - Spur - Fine.

Changing existing for new - Fine

Extending the ring, a little different, it is covered under part p.

See the sticky thread at the top.

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darrenc wrote:
I dont think its a stupid question but does show a lack of understanding of how paint works and reasons for certain applications, now dont jump down my throat Jaegar i'm not being funny its just a classic case in point of a well educated professionally trained painter against a general tradesman.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:29 am 
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well thats not how I read it

extra sockets on an existing ring fine - no detail on how many

also regs dont determine a max number of sockets per ring, but do state a maximum ring length of 100m

imo the only notifiable work is

new circuits added to the board
a new board
any new work in a kitchen, bathroom or outside


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:10 am 
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Jaeger_S2k wrote:
If you do it yourself, which you are entitled to, you have to inform Building Regs and they will charge for it, but they MUST appoint a spark to test your work. It's their responsibility not your, in fact it's against regulations for you to ask a spark to test your work for part p.

So lets get this correct…..building control can appoint a spark to certify the work but me or you can’t….why’s that then.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:21 am 
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uncle buck wrote:
Jaeger_S2k wrote:
If you do it yourself, which you are entitled to, you have to inform Building Regs and they will charge for it, but they MUST appoint a spark to test your work. It's their responsibility not your, in fact it's against regulations for you to ask a spark to test your work for part p.

So lets get this correct…..building control can appoint a spark to certify the work but me or you can’t….why’s that then.


Because we are not the controlling authority, I guess.
They contract the spark to work under their authority and report to them.

Hopefully Ban All or Stoday will come along and confirm the Part P requirements. I'm no expert (as many will testify) but I'd air on the side of caution with this one.

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darrenc wrote:
I dont think its a stupid question but does show a lack of understanding of how paint works and reasons for certain applications, now dont jump down my throat Jaegar i'm not being funny its just a classic case in point of a well educated professionally trained painter against a general tradesman.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:36 am 
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Well that’s just not on now is it….why should building control be allowed to sub-contract the testing out but the house owner can’t…..this is just another example of how part p is only concerned with taking money from you. :ag


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:52 am 
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uncle buck wrote:
Well that’s just not on now is it….why should building control be allowed to sub-contract the testing out but the house owner can’t…..this is just another example of how part p is only concerned with taking money from you. :ag


Exactly!

Part p does little to make electrics safer, in fact it make electrics more dangerous! IMHO

Before part p you could get a consumer unit changed for £150 all in, now this has shot up to £400 in some areas. I know people with old fuseboards that really need changing, but they won't do because of the cost. They could of afforded the £150 but are not prepared to pay out £400 and so they will just leave their dangerously overloaded fuse boards!

Ban-All-sheds has done a great post on part p, it can be found here-

http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/forum ... php?t=1215

At the time of writing (April 2006), the following work was classed as not needing notification to LABC:


2. Work which -

(a) is not in a kitchen, or a special location,

(b) does not involve work on a special installation, and

(c) consists of -


(i) adding light fittings and switches to an
existing circuit or

(ii) adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an
existing ring or radial circuit.


The problem is that the rules are often open to interpretation.

By reading point (ii) above it would seem in my opinion that you are allowed to add to your existing ring main without notification.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:46 am 
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:thumbright:

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darrenc wrote:
I dont think its a stupid question but does show a lack of understanding of how paint works and reasons for certain applications, now dont jump down my throat Jaegar i'm not being funny its just a classic case in point of a well educated professionally trained painter against a general tradesman.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:52 pm 
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Hi guys

thanks for all the input on this one. i'm inclined to agree with ultimatehandyman on this.

I even found a gov website which states in their FAQ that electrical installion into a conservatory is NOT notifieable unless the work extends to the provisions of a new circuit, or involves an extension to an existing circuit in a kitchen or bathroom. However, new socket-outlets in a conservatory should be provided with RCD protection, as in most cases it would be reasonable to expect that they may be used to supply portable equipment for use outdoors.

However I'm getting paranoid about future probs with selling the house etc etc Also 2 professional Sparkies failed to mention the above facts :? When pricing for a job.Do they know something other than the above facts or Is it the Bl**din obvious!
worries me a bit :sad:

I have done a lot of this type of work before the new regs and feel a bit let down by the industry on this one! ::b

Any Sparkies want to comment on the regs?

Cheers


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:07 pm 
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Hi just for the record, some gov websites are saying If the ring serves a kitchen or bathroom then an extension to the ring is indeed notifiable!

As it involves an extension to an existing circuit in a kitchen or bathroom.

you cant win can you! :roll:
cheers

Neil


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:41 pm 
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Personally I would just do it & worry about certification when you need it…..you will more than likely find that if you haven’t got the correct certification when you come to sell the property there will be measures in place to obtain it.


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