DIY Forum

 

Ultimate Handyman Ultimate Handyman Ultimate Handyman Ultimate HandymanUltimate Handyman on Pinterest

 

DIY Forum/Home improvement advice forum

 

 

A-Z CONTENTS | DISCLAIMER | DIY VIDEO | HOME | SAFETY FIRST | FORUM RULES

It is currently Thu Oct 19, 2017 9:54 am
Visit Thermo worx


Time zone: Europe/London [ DST ]




 

 


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 59 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:27 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:27 pm
Posts: 691
Has thanked: 54 times
Been thanked: 11 times
Hey folks - this is now back on the agenda! Hopefully starting in a week or two (will order the wood a week or so before I lay).

Same method apply re asphalt/bitumen - knock out the exising SLC then lay Arditex NA in the sections of floor that need levelling (which in reality, although harsh in areas is confined to two corners in one room and just one in the other).
With regard to laying Arditex NA, does this mean I can skip the sanding/scoring of the asphalt (would be far easier to manage with family and downtime etc).

Anything revolutionary occurred in the engineered wood world in the past year? Prices gone up, down?!

Many thanks.


Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on DiggShare on DeliciousShare on Google+
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2015 10:49 pm 
Offline
Wood Flooring Installer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:40 pm
Posts: 4551
Location: Manchester
Has thanked: 549 times
Been thanked: 638 times
somapop wrote:
With regard to laying Arditex NA, does this mean I can skip the sanding/scoring of the asphalt (would be far easier to manage with family and downtime etc).

Anything revolutionary occurred in the engineered wood world in the past year? Prices gone up, down?!

Many thanks.


Nope...You need to remove any contaminants and score the floor. Will the NA pop/de-bond if you don't? Who knows :-)

No real big changes that I know of :thumbright:

_________________
fitmywoodfloor.co.uk

Squeakyfloorsolution.co.uk

>>>>>> Manchester based wood floor installers <<<<<<


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:03 am 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:27 pm
Posts: 691
Has thanked: 54 times
Been thanked: 11 times
Wes wrote:
somapop wrote:
With regard to laying Arditex NA, does this mean I can skip the sanding/scoring of the asphalt (would be far easier to manage with family and downtime etc).

Anything revolutionary occurred in the engineered wood world in the past year? Prices gone up, down?!

Many thanks.


Nope...You need to remove any contaminants and score the floor. Will the NA pop/de-bond if you don't? Who knows :-)

No real big changes that I know of :thumbright:


Sorry Wes - I misread one your earlier comments (you did indeed mention giving the floor a 'tickle' with a sander.
The area's in question aren't that large - perhaps 2m x 2m in one end of the room and similar in the other. I'll measure correctly before I order however. I'm going to take a pic tonight of both the floor at the moment and with a spirit level. I have a feeling (though not certain until I give it a proper look) it might be deeper than 15mm in parts and therefore require an aggregate: I was wondering what this involved? Use a mix of NA and something else?!

Thanks again Wes...glad you're still around! Although I've laid a few laminate floors (that still look fine years on) I'm a little apprehensive laying a far more expensive floor. Still looking at approx £30 perSQM, and pre oiled, light oak (5-6mm top layer).
If I recall (and I'll have to go back on the links from the first page, I was looking at the shorter boards of random lengths.
I think the whole family are looking forward to seeing the back of that asphalt floor...we've been through SIX temporary rugs in the meantime!!

Cheers! :thumbright:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2015 11:05 pm 
Offline
Wood Flooring Installer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:40 pm
Posts: 4551
Location: Manchester
Has thanked: 549 times
Been thanked: 638 times
Quote:
I have a feeling (though not certain until I give it a proper look) it might be deeper than 15mm in parts and therefore require an aggregate: I was wondering what this involved? Use a mix of NA and something else?!


Yes. I find it best for deep patch screeds to pour the NA and chicken feed fine aggregate/chippings into the NA. Then give it a bit of a mix with a trowel to sink the aggregate. Otherwise, a lot of it will just sit on the surface.

If we're talking like the last foot of the slope is like 20 or 25 mm deep. Well, is the NA going to break into pieces or explode into a ball of flames if you didn't add aggregate...Very likely not :wink:

Quote:
Thanks again Wes...glad you're still around! Although I've laid a few laminate floors (that still look fine years on) I'm a little apprehensive laying a far more expensive floor.


You'll be fine. Flat sub-floor, adequate expansion around the perimeter, adequate board overlaps...Job done :-)

Quote:
I think the whole family are looking forward to seeing the back of that asphalt floor...we've been through SIX temporary rugs in the meantime!!


Yep, asphalt floors are horrid to live with for any length of time...Not long now by the sounds of it :thumbright:

_________________
fitmywoodfloor.co.uk

Squeakyfloorsolution.co.uk

>>>>>> Manchester based wood floor installers <<<<<<


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 10:24 am 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:27 pm
Posts: 691
Has thanked: 54 times
Been thanked: 11 times
^^ Chicken feed :shock:
Is that an industry term?! It's highly likely I'll need to add something - I haven't measure yet, but I bet when I take the existing (cracked) SLC up it will be a fair bit deeper than 15mm. Is the aggregate something I can pick up from any local DIY store or garden centre? In saying that, if it turns out to be approx 25mm then I'll just order an extra bag of the NA stuff (I think you mentioned it was around £30 a bag - I thought it would be more like £100 a bag..

Aye, looking forward to laying the floor (it is a satisfying job) and will make the world of difference to the rooms. I'm someone who could live in a room with concrete (polished) floors and ceilings...but this asphalt isn't anything like 'urban/cool'!
I might need a few more tips nearer the time, but best I sort the levelling out then order the wood (I'll order the wood early so it can acclimatise.
I have a small set of those plastic triangle wedges (used for the expansion gaps) but I presume it's better to use a standard, rectangle block (say 10mm thick) if I'm looking for a set gap all around the perimeter?

BTW - somebody mentioned Selco have an offer on engineered wood at the moment (white oak). None on display the other night (though they had around 90 boxes out back). Approx £18-19 per SQM (but VAT needs adding) so around £24 per SQM. Not a bad price, but the thickness is 13mm and there's no mention of the veneer thickness or finish. I know people who have this in their house and are more than happy, but I can't help thinking paying a few more quid per SQM for 18mm (generally 5mm veneer) and with a chosen finish would be a better move.

Cheers Wes!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:27 pm 
Offline
Wood Flooring Installer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:40 pm
Posts: 4551
Location: Manchester
Has thanked: 549 times
Been thanked: 638 times
Quote:
^^ Chicken feed :shock:
Is that an industry term?!


I doubt it :lol: It's a term I use to try and give a visual aid to people that don't do this often. Mixing the aggregate as you mix the compound (In the same bucket) will give you a thick bitty hard to work compound. I prefer to mix the compound on its own, then apply it to the area, then handball the aggregate (I think broadcast is the term). 'Chicken feed' - grab a handful of feed (aggregate) and throw/scatter it across the ground (still wet levelling compound). You surely get my drift now :-). Then rake or trowel (with a chopping motion) the compound to work the aggregate into it (so you're not left with a pebble dashed effect on the surface of the compound) and the aggregate becomes suspended within the compound to give it the strength. Think mixing chocolate chips into a cookie dough rather than just sprinkling the cookies over the top when the cookie dough has set. See, I'm full of these silly analogies :lol:

It's often best to do the deep section first, leaving the level slightly lower than the finish you want. Leave to dry, then go over the top with a final fine coat. It can be a pain trying to feather out a compound with bits of aggregate all over the place.

Quote:
Is the aggregate something I can pick up from any local DIY store or garden centre?


http://www.directflooringcentre.co.uk/f ... ArXX8P8HAQ

Quote:
BTW - somebody mentioned Selco have an offer on engineered wood at the moment (white oak). None on display the other night (though they had around 90 boxes out back). Approx £18-19 per SQM (but VAT needs adding) so around £24 per SQM. Not a bad price, but the thickness is 13mm and there's no mention of the veneer thickness or finish. I know people who have this in their house and are more than happy, but I can't help thinking paying a few more quid per SQM for 18mm (generally 5mm veneer) and with a chosen finish would be a better move.


Not used Selco's flooring so can't comment directly. However, at 13 mm thick, the veneer will be approx 2 mm. Rubbish IMO..

Stick with an 18 mm thick board. It'll also feel far more substantial/solid under foot :thumbleft: As well as the obvious advantages of a longer life regards sanding etc..

_________________
fitmywoodfloor.co.uk

Squeakyfloorsolution.co.uk

>>>>>> Manchester based wood floor installers <<<<<<


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2015 8:27 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:27 pm
Posts: 691
Has thanked: 54 times
Been thanked: 11 times
^^Many thanks Wes.
I have to agree with the Selco stuff - although there's no info on the veneer, I'd hazard a guess you were spot on with 2mm.

I've just had a rerun through all my flooring options (I'd forgotten which ones I ultimately short listed) but think I'm back on track now!
What I really like (and so does the missus) is the whiter, lighter oak. I think that style will help lighten the rooms and make them look larger (this black asphalt isn't helping!).
I thought I had the perfect flood bookmarked today (slightly more at £35 per SQM): correct colour, style, thickness (18mm, 5mm top layer and 150mm wide) but then realised this was lacquered...and I feel a brushed oiled floor would suit us better (even though kids are added into the equation). I could see chipped lacquer annoying me...and I don't really envisage doing a resand, at least for a good few years.

This is the one (unless I can mail them about an oiled version):

http://www.ukflooringdirect.co.uk/engineered-wood-flooring/species/Oak/thickness/16~18mm

So, another option is the one below. Oiled, 18mm with 5mm top layer, almost the same colour style as the one above (but not as I'd like it). Although this suggests applying a couple of layers of hard wax oil after laying - is this normal?

https://www.woodandbeyond.com/products/Natural-Engineered-Oak-Sunny-White-Oiled-18-5mm-By-125mm-By-300-1500mm.html

Price is decent. Planks (at 125mm) are not as wide as I'd hoped, but this is where the budget gets shaved. Random lengths.

Apologies for posting my short lists...I really don't have any experience in real wood floors (or know anybody who does) but I really want to get it right. It should really be the icing on the cake for this blinking house refurb!!

Cheers.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:32 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:27 pm
Posts: 691
Has thanked: 54 times
Been thanked: 11 times
Ok - had a good 'shop around' over the weekend and I think I've narrowed it down to two. One is this (posted above):

https://www.woodandbeyond.com/products/Natural-Engineered-Oak-Sunny-White-Oiled-18-5mm-By-125mm-By-300-1500mm.html

Oiled (not UV oiled which I've decided against) - Natural Grade. 18mm, 5mm by 125mm. Will need further coats of oil (Treatex) when laid.

Or this one (linked to by others on here - family firm in Devon). This is Rustic grade (I can't see a great deal of difference between this and the natural grade above. I want a light, modern looking board...I think this will suffice. Not treated at all (sanded only) so will need a couple (?) of coats once laid. I'm assuming Treatex Hardwood Natrual oil will retain the colour (i.e. not darken too much):

https://www.jfjwoodflooring.co.uk/150mm-wide-exmoor-oak

I'm ordering a sample of the boards today. Slightly more than the £30 per SQM I originally wanted to pay, but I think the size (18mm, 5mm, 150mm) will be worth it. Like the sound of the company too.

As for DPM - something like this?:

Image

And then just a bag of 15mm spacers?!!

Cheers!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:59 am 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:27 pm
Posts: 691
Has thanked: 54 times
Been thanked: 11 times
Hi Wes - just a quickie...honest!
I had a good look at the current floor last night. Aside from a small section that was missed by the last screed, the levelling compound just needs to be added in the corners of the rooms - smallish sections 1.5 x 2m at most really. Approx 10mm at the greatest depth (once the existing, cracked screed is removed).
You mentioned Mapei in a previous post - this is something I can pick up locally, which is preferable if I run out etc (Selco do a Bostik compound but not sure about that one). Retails around £20 a bag (Screwfix), with a discount on 4 bags (4 bags should suffice.
If I give the existing (old screed removed) asphalt a clean and sand/score, do you think the Mapei product will suit the purpose? It does appear to be a little more forgiving, although (as you've said) less able at the finer feathering (would that be an issue?). I believe the product is good up to 30mm.
(BTW - I'm picking some of that bitumen paint from wickes this evening - I've found the product. There's a fireplace section that's concrete (just like the section where the old wall was) so I'll paint that over too.

Hoping to do it this weekend with a view to laying the floor the following weekend :shock:

Having spoke to JFJ Wood flooring (in Devon) several times, and receiving a couple of samples, we've finally made a decision on the flooring. They've been an absolutely great help (as have you all on here) and I'm sure will continue to be.
Having seen the 18mm slim/short boards (300mm length mostly, 150mm width), I've decided (and it was close) to plump for a wider, longer board, slighter thinner (but with 4mm Oak - natural grade) and 7 ply structure (they feel absolutely solid) at 220mm x 2200mm length. I do prefer the wider look and I'm sure it will be a tad quicker to lay. Will end up spending more that we initially budgeted for, but I've just saved a few hundred quid on bedroom flooring (spotted on offer in laminate, 12mm, in Wickes...down to approx £8per SQM) I've put this saving on to the engineered wood flooring downstairs.
We'll lay it unfinished then decide if want to keep it that colour (light) by applying a light pigment oil first (Treatex 'Natural' before hardwood oil finish) or just apply Treatex Hardwood Oil (couple of coats) which will darken it slightly, but feel much warmer (the latter is more likely).
Despite being a bit pricier than we'd planned, I'd struggle to find the same floor for a cheaper price - the Kahrs version (slightly thinner, but same width/length) is nearly £20 per SQM more.

Cheers!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:08 pm 
Offline
Wood Flooring Installer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:40 pm
Posts: 4551
Location: Manchester
Has thanked: 549 times
Been thanked: 638 times
Quote:
Quote:
You mentioned Mapei in a previous post - this is something I can pick up locally, which is preferable if I run out etc (Selco do a Bostik compound but not sure about that one). Retails around £20 a bag (Screwfix), with a discount on 4 bags (4 bags should suffice.
If I give the existing (old screed removed) asphalt a clean and sand/score, do you think the Mapei product will suit the purpose? It does appear to be a little more forgiving, although (as you've said) less able at the finer feathering (would that be an issue?). I believe the product is good up to 30mm.


I can't remember mentioning a Mapei product in this thread and reading back can't find it :scratch: I'm not too clued up on the full Mapei range, but it was likely Mapei Tradeplan I mentioned. If it was, it doesn't seem that it's compatible with bitumen.

In my experience, any levelling compound in a Bostik bag is utter sh!te. That's why builders always mess up smoothing compounds, because they buy cr@ppy Bostik from Selco, as well as the fact they've got no skills :wink: :lol: :lol: :lol:

It's hard to give advice about compounds as there's that many different products out there. Some can be a right nightmare and some can be excellent. I use quality (F-ball or Ardex) because they're what I know and I can get them on tap..

All I can really say is check what you buy is compatible with bitumen/ashpalt. At the depths you're talking, I'd use a compound with separate latex bottle. Not a water based compound. Although a water based will be far easier to work with, you may be waiting a good while for it to dry. They can often look dry, but still contain moisture beneath. This is general advice and using a latex compound doesn't always result in fast drying. That sounds contradictory, but it highlights how different they can behave. We installed a random latex compound to try out the other week (That was a Mapei latex come to think of it!) and it took nearly 5 days to dry out at 3 mm thick!!!! I was gutted and regretted not using my usual, but you've got to try these things :-)

If you use a compound with a separate latex bottle, you shouldn't need to worry too much regards the feathering issue. About 20 minutes or so after you've applied the compound, give the edge a few flicks of water and trowel the edge to a smooth finish. Kind of like plastering. The latex will likely separate slightly and discolour to a cloudy white but it'll be ok.

_________________
fitmywoodfloor.co.uk

Squeakyfloorsolution.co.uk

>>>>>> Manchester based wood floor installers <<<<<<


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:31 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:27 pm
Posts: 691
Has thanked: 54 times
Been thanked: 11 times
Wes wrote:
If you're going to use Ardex products, Arditex NA will be your best bet and the ashpalt wouldn't need priming.

If the sub-floor requires a full coverage of self levelling (after you've properly inspected the sub-floor) and you've never used a self levelling compound before, you may be better of using F-ball stopgap 1200. Flows extremely well and is a little more forgiving than the Arditex NA but doesn't feather to great in my experience.

Both are latex based and not particularly cheap. Around £30 per bag retail.

There are plenty of other products out there btw. Mapie (< very good) slc's can be found in some sheds.


Just here at the end Wes, but I think I'll discount it now! 5 days!!
Really tough schedule as weekend arrangements, family visiting at the end of October and the house is full of kids in the week.
Hoping to level the sections of the floor this weekend, order the floor Monday and lay the following week.
I think I'll order the Added NA or F ball tomorrow - to confirm, neither require primer?
Sorry Wes - lost me a bit on the latex bottle - is it something that comes (instructed) with the bags?

I hadn't factored in compression ratchets - something you can pick up locally? Quality floor and I've never used them with laminates I've laid, but if they'd help a fair bit...

Million thanks Wes - I'm more worried about the levelling than the flooring!!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:47 pm 
Offline
Wood Flooring Installer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:40 pm
Posts: 4551
Location: Manchester
Has thanked: 549 times
Been thanked: 638 times
somapop wrote:
Wes wrote:
If you're going to use Ardex products, Arditex NA will be your best bet and the ashpalt wouldn't need priming.

If the sub-floor requires a full coverage of self levelling (after you've properly inspected the sub-floor) and you've never used a self levelling compound before, you may be better of using F-ball stopgap 1200. Flows extremely well and is a little more forgiving than the Arditex NA but doesn't feather to great in my experience.

Both are latex based and not particularly cheap. Around £30 per bag retail.

There are plenty of other products out there btw. Mapie (< very good) slc's can be found in some sheds.


Just here at the end Wes, but I think I'll discount it now! 5 days!!
Really tough schedule as weekend arrangements, family visiting at the end of October and the house is full of kids in the week.
Hoping to level the sections of the floor this weekend, order the floor Monday and lay the following week.
I think I'll order the Added NA or F ball tomorrow - to confirm, neither require primer?
Sorry Wes - lost me a bit on the latex bottle - is it something that comes (instructed) with the bags?

I hadn't factored in compression ratchets - something you can pick up locally? Quality floor and I've never used them with laminates I've laid, but if they'd help a fair bit...

Million thanks Wes - I'm more worried about the levelling than the flooring!!


Oh, fair enough :lol: Mapie are very good, I just don't have their full ranges in my head. Might be worth calling their tech department so they can give you a specific compound. The Mapei stuff we used was pretty cheap (sorry, can't remember the exact name), so avoid the budget stuff. Although, it did flow really nicely, just went grey waiting for it to dry :-)

Neither F-ball 1200 or Arditex NA require primer on non-absorbent surfaces, but do clean and score the floor. As for the latex bottle http://www.directflooringcentre.co.uk/f ... CeSbw_wcB..

I'm pretty sure Wickes do ratchets. Well worth it in my opinion...Worry about it all :wink: :lol:

_________________
fitmywoodfloor.co.uk

Squeakyfloorsolution.co.uk

>>>>>> Manchester based wood floor installers <<<<<<


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:47 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:27 pm
Posts: 691
Has thanked: 54 times
Been thanked: 11 times
Cheers Wes - so just purchase them two together and have done?? No primer or other stuff?!
Probably need several bags (hoping four Max if that) but will measure areas before I order.
One section is approx 5msq (dining room) the other is far smaller: the original screed has feathered in this smaller section (living room) so well it looks indistinguishable from the original asphalt floor (bar the colour difference) so not quite sure how to remove this...if its really adhered best to leave it?
It has cracked/broken up in deeper sections however.

Hopefully get it ordered first thing for Friday delivery.

EDIT: Data sheet on the F ball suggests Max of 6mm - some of my sections are 10mm+ in parts - chicken feed route?

Massive thanks Wes!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:24 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:27 pm
Posts: 691
Has thanked: 54 times
Been thanked: 11 times
Apologies again folks...seem to be asking the same questions over and over again!
I pulled up some of the existing screed last night, some of it just lifted up (literally no adhesion) whilst other sections, although cracked are firmly stuck down. Even a crack with a hammer didn't shift them. Would it, therefore, be suitable to leave the adhered sections and pour the Ball stopgap 1200 (and latex/aggregate) onto the gaps/bitumen floor, with a thin layer on top of the existing screed. The other room (living room) with the small section (2x1m) of existing screed, is equally firm.
Seems to be certain sections that aren't adhered whilst others are very strongly adhered (although cracked in parts) - strong enough to withstand a whack with a hammer to loosen up.

Cheers!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:37 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:27 pm
Posts: 691
Has thanked: 54 times
Been thanked: 11 times
I've just spoken to F BALL & Co Technical team and they, bluntly, didn't advise laying any product (including the 1200) on Ashphalt over 6mm, even with aggregate (some sections are a fair bit over 10-15mm). One suggestion was to remove the asphalt entirely...just how the heck I could manage that, logistically and financially is a bit of a headache. Anything deeper could potentially lift the asphalt up apparently...
Were they covering their own backs re advice on their products?
I'm at an utter loss what to do...or am I just panicking and should just go ahead and lay the 1200 with aggregate?!! :(


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 59 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next


Similar topics
   

Time zone: Europe/London [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Visit Hilti


 

 

 

News News Site map Site map SitemapIndex SitemapIndex RSS Feed RSS Feed Channel list Channel list
ultimatehandyman privacy policy

Contact

 

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group

phpBB SEO