DIY Forum

 

Ultimate Handyman Ultimate Handyman Ultimate Handyman Ultimate HandymanUltimate Handyman on Pinterest

 

DIY Forum/Home improvement advice forum

 

 

A-Z CONTENTS | DISCLAIMER | DIY VIDEO | HOME | SAFETY FIRST | FORUM RULES

It is currently Tue May 22, 2018 2:19 pm
Visit Hilti


Time zone: Europe/London [ DST ]




 

 


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:27 am 
Offline
Newly registered Member

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:50 pm
Posts: 32
Has thanked: 0 times
Been thanked: 0 times
Hi All. Looking for some expert advice here. I have a utility room approx 8ft x 12ft. I am hoping to install a shower cubicle in one corner but there are a number of socket outlets dotted around..The nearest one to the cubicle would be about 4ft away. Can anyone enlighten me on the legal requirements please.Many thanks.


Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on DiggShare on DeliciousShare on Google+
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:08 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 3:43 am
Posts: 2607
Location: North Wales
Has thanked: 64 times
Been thanked: 537 times
The legal requirement depends where you live, Scotland, England and Wales all different, and the premises domestic has different laws to commercial. However in the main we follow BS7671 which is not law but can be used in a court of law. So BS7671 says 3 meters from shower to nearest socket.

It seems as part of EU we can use any set of EU regulations so we could wire a house to German speck, however most electricians are members of a scheme which allows self certification and the scheme provider insists they follow BS7671 so not sure who you could get to wire a house to German speck.

Of course if the shower is in its own room, then the rules change, so the height of the shower cubical is important, 2.25 meters is the demarcation point, so if the shower cubical is 2.25 meters or touches the ceiling then it is classed as another room.

Remember you have asked about the law, not what is good practice.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:43 am 
Offline
Newly registered Member

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2012 1:50 pm
Posts: 32
Has thanked: 0 times
Been thanked: 0 times
Hi Ericmark,thanks for that.For the sake of completion I live in the Midlands UK. I propose fitting a sliding shower door within an enclosure 900x1200 created by waterproof shower panels (of the Mermaid type). These are 2400 high and will fit to the ceiling.This will effectively create a room except for a small area above the top of the door up to the ceiling which will be open but if necessary I could panel that off.How would that be classed? Are there any special sockets that I could fit to comply?Finally you mention best practise,anything there that would help me?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:42 pm 
Offline
Approved Electrician

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:01 pm
Posts: 2566
Location: South Yorkshire
Has thanked: 161 times
Been thanked: 556 times
ericmark is wrong.

Having a shower cubicle that extends to the ceiling in your utility room does not classify the shower cubicle as it's own room.

If you fit a shower cubicle in your utility room then the rules are simple. No sockets within 3m of the shower.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:47 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:47 pm
Posts: 696
Location: East Riding of Yorkshire
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 181 times
Would the 3m rule apply to an illuminated wall mirror which has it's own shaver socket?

Cheers,
Davyp1


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:02 pm 
Offline
Approved Electrician

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:01 pm
Posts: 2566
Location: South Yorkshire
Has thanked: 161 times
Been thanked: 556 times
No.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:50 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:47 pm
Posts: 696
Location: East Riding of Yorkshire
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 181 times
OnlyMe wrote:
No.


Cheers mate . . .

Davyp1


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:21 am 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:35 pm
Posts: 2788
Has thanked: 42 times
Been thanked: 617 times
Legal requirements and simple practicality are also two different things.

If it were me, in my own situation, I don't have kids and am not stupid enough to mess around with sockets after getting out of the shower etc.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:05 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 3:43 am
Posts: 2607
Location: North Wales
Has thanked: 64 times
Been thanked: 537 times
Remember you asked about law not regulations, also people can interpret what is written in many ways, it has been common for years to have en-suit showers, the regulations originally classed the shower in the bedroom as a special case, then in 2008 it was rewritten so any room with a shower came under the same rules.

The 3 meter rules however in the main is for showers fitted in bedrooms as in the main bathrooms are not that big, and it has been normal for years to have double doors where showers have been fitted into bedrooms, so there is one door between shower and room and a second door forming a shower room so when you step out of the shower you don't step direct into bedroom but into a separate area. The rule book shows the walls of the shower and how to measure around corners formed by walls around the shower.

Where the room is under the control of LABC then clearly it is up to the LABC to decide if what you has forms a room or not, in this house we have a wet room and clearly the sliding door on the wet room makes it into a room, it is no different with a shower cubical it is simply a very small room, there is no requirement for the socket in my hall to be 3 meters from wet room door although we would not mount one very close to the door, there is a stair case between socket and wet room door however I suspect it is within 3 meters.

In other words some common sense must be used, so where some one using the shower could get dried without leaving the room, then it is clearly safe to have sockets just outside the shower room, however where that would be impossible, and the person would need to step out of the room to get dried, then common sense says the room you step into is part of the bathroom, however the rule book does not define in that way.

Also remember when the rules were made first you did not need RCD protection, of course today all sockets and all lights are RCD protected but historicity this was not the case, the regulations do allow sockets for below 12 volt however the standard USB socket is not designed for bathroom use, in theory no difference between a shaver socket and USB socket, however in practice we don't know if a USB socket has enough isolation and since it is not marked BS EN 61558-2-5 so not allowed, or is it?

Except for SELV socket-outlets complying with Section 414 and shaver supply units complying with BS EN 61558-2-5 there are three classes of extra low voltage SELV, FELV and PELV all to do with how earthed, advert for a shaver socketdoes not actually say it complies with BS EN 61558-2-5 and in the same way advert for a USB socket does not state SELV the S means separated, it can't have an earth.

Be it a shaver socket or USB socket I would not mount where likely to get wet, I would not fit a USB socket in a bathroom because I simply don't know if SELV or not, handy to recharge a shaver, trimmer, or tooth brush, but when rechargeable why is there a need to charge in the bathroom? I know there is a problem with some shaver sockets without the tooth brush icon that they are not suitable for continuous use, but a rechargeable shaver is also continuous use.

So in real terms common sense, you know if having a socket is likely to get wet or be used by some one before they dry themselves, I would never consider leaning out of the shower and switching on the kettle, but would not be surprised if my wife did.

So in a commercially built built British caravan the consumer unit is in the wardrobe inside the shower room, this is not one electrician making an error, it is a whole series of caravans, why it's there not a clue, power enters caravan from furthest corner to consumer unit, took me ages to find when it tripped. Is it safe? Well I would hope my wife would not splash water onto the wardrobe so likely yes, does it break the law? likely not as a caravan is not a building so does not come under LABC, does it need a tool or key to assess no it doesn't, would I fit it there in a house, no I wouldn't but there must be 100's if not 1000's of caravans with the consumer unit in the shower cubical and we don't hear of any accidents as a result.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:29 pm 
Offline
Approved Electrician

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:01 pm
Posts: 2566
Location: South Yorkshire
Has thanked: 161 times
Been thanked: 556 times
After reading that I suggest that the OP fits a caravan in his utility room. FFS.



For this message the author OnlyMe has received gratitude : wine~o
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 


Similar topics
   

Time zone: Europe/London [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


 

 

 

News News Site map Site map SitemapIndex SitemapIndex RSS Feed RSS Feed Channel list Channel list
ultimatehandyman privacy policy

Contact

 

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group

phpBB SEO