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comfortably_numb
Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 87
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 Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:54 pm Post subject: Double Glazing Question ?? |
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I've had a set of double glazed patio doors & a new double glazed back door fitted. It is fitted by the builder as part of a bigger job. The glass was purchased (by the builder) from a large reputable double glazing company. The builder is not FENSA registered
My question ...... Who is responsible for the garuantee warranty of these windows (i.m assuming 10 years) if the double glazing broke down etc Builder or double glazing company ?? |
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ultimatehandyman
Site Admin
Joined: 16 Jul 2005
Posts: 9740
Location: Darwen, Lancashire
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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I think you would have to claim from the builder and then he will claim from the double glazing company.
Is it an insurance backed guarantee?
If it is not and the builder or double glazing firm ceases trading the guarantee could be worthless.
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iceni
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Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 71
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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Firstly do you have a document stating a 10 year guarantee?
It sounds not, so the first step would be to get one.
Your contract is with the builder therefore all guarantees and responsibilities lay with them. - they should make good then claim back from their supplier.
You don't say what the doors are made of.
If PVC then the doors are probably purchased from a local window company who possible buy in the glass units.
Also try and find out who made the doors then also the door system manufacturers name (company that extruded the plastic). |
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comfortably_numb
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Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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I'm settling bill on Friday & some paperwork should accompany my Invoice (hopefully)
Doors are PVCU & the glass is kite marked with Crystal Units Ltd, BSEN 12150 KM 530625
The doors are manufactured by the supplier on-site |
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Hoovie
Devon DIYer
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 8036
Location: East Devon
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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is there not some regulation that says DG units MUST be covered under the FENSA warranty?
in the same way like a gas Boiler installed for a charge MUST be done by a Corgi Registered installer
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She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose. |
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comfortably_numb
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Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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The Fensa as far as i can tell has nothing to do with the warranty of the units. Fensa only ensures that the materials & fitment are to a certain standard. The glass supplied is to Fensa requirements but the fitter isnt (and doesnt have to be) Fensa approved.
If i want a certificate i can call on local building regs to come out & check the work ... Upon their approval they can issue a certificate. So whoever fit their own windows can still get a certificate.
Only need to worry about indemnity or certificates if decide to move & declare the windows were fitted after 2002
To be fair ... had i of known all about this Fensa thing from the beginning would of probably got a window company out seperately ..... Still, live & learn |
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Gadget
Jack Of All Trades
Joined: 18 Dec 2005
Posts: 3557
Location: Whitley Bay
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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If you call out your local BCO to inspect the glass it will cost you £100!
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comfortably_numb
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Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Gadget wrote: |
| If you call out your local BCO to inspect the glass it will cost you £100! |
I'm not to worried as have no plans to move in the long term future. If i did i would probably statee they were fitted before 2002  |
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lockie
Senior Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 229
Location: dan sarf
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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Forget the 10 year guarantee its probaly worthless unless its from a long term company like everest. I lost count of how many jobs ive gone to sort a door or window and the homeowner tells me they tried to get in touch with the company that did the work but they no longer exist.Many DG firms close the company down every few years and open up the next day under a new company name.
Not much can go wrong with it unless its badly fitted.Common problems are doors that go out of square causing locking problems.Windows can get loose hinges and the odd broken mech.Misted panes over time.
Did you know it is possible to repair scratches and even holes so you cannot see the repair ? Got a nifty little kit for this on the van.Im able to get different shades of white to colour match in most upvc profiles.
If you get any major dents as long as the plastic isnt broken you can get them out with gentle heat from a heat gun as the plastic has a memory. |
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Hoovie
Devon DIYer
Joined: 27 Jul 2007
Posts: 8036
Location: East Devon
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:25 am Post subject: |
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I thought FENSA was a guarantee and it was correctly pointed it it was a standard.
I just checked my paperword for the last window & doors I had fitted by a local company (would not touch Everest or Anglian with an extendable bargepole) and they clearly stated that their 10 year guarantee is insurance backed in case their company stops trading, and a couple of weeks later I received the insurance document.
personally, I would be looking for something similar from your builder.
As UHM and Lockie says, a guarantee backed solely by builder/supplier is worthless if they cease trading. Needed a DG pane replaced after seal failed in my last house after 7 years, called company - no longer trading 
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I went to a bookstore and asked the saleswoman, "Where's the self-help section?"
She said if she told me, it would defeat the purpose. |
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lockie
Senior Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 229
Location: dan sarf
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:58 am Post subject: |
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The reason i mentioned everest is that they do actually fit high quality locking products to the doors they fit.
Many dont but everest stuff does last as im only ever called to repair their stuff that they fitted in the eighties to the early ali doors.Most of the early stuff is union (part of the assa abloy group) and the later upvc stuff is winkhaus fitted with kaba gege cylinders which are very good german quality and right bitch to pick open.
Lets face it the door is only as good as the lock and hinges. Many of the cheaper firms don't use adjustable hinges or decent locks meaning lots of future problems.
I often get called out to new installs where the locks are causing problems as they have rubbish locks fitted and the hinges are not adjustable.You see anything with "avocet" on it run a mile.These particular multipoint locks fail at anytime for no reason.Had to open one that failed only a week after being installed.
Many firms dont actually know how to adjust the locks properly, which is surprising.Failure to keep it fully adjusted means they break costing a fair bit for replacement and getting it open if it fails in the fully locked position.
I love working with it as many locksmiths run a mile from upvc work, its like marmite you either love it or hate it. lol |
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peter c
Senior Member
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Posts: 333
Location: Suffolk
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:02 am Post subject: |
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CN I think you will find that the DG unit has the year of maufacture stencilled in the silver centre piece. Mine certainly have, these were installed by a FENSA registered firm last year. I also have the FENSA certificate. A couple of weeks ago I bought a new unit to replace a misted unit (not installed last year) this unit also has 2008 stencilled in the silver centre piece.
Peter C
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lockie
Senior Member
Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 229
Location: dan sarf
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 9:47 am Post subject: |
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| The fensa rgistration is a bit of a farce,it just means an installer can self certificate off the install they have done.My brother in law is an installer and to get registration they just went around to look at few jobs he had done before and took his money.Never checked anything since. It only really comes into play when you sell the property as mentioned earlier in the thread.You either need a building control cert or fensa cert. |
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iceni
Member
Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 71
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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You say the windows are manufactured by a local company (the fabricator), then fitted by your builder ? (the installer).
Therefore you need to know who the fabricator buys the PVC exrtusions from. (the sytems company).
They will have designed the system and had it tested to the relevant British Standards.
They expect thier fabricators to reach certain standards as poor workmanship reflects on their systems and its good name in the industry. So it is important that you find out who they are (Schuco. Rehau, Kommerling etc).
The silver centre piece refered to above is the 'glazing spacer' so the date on it is likely to be it's date of manufacture. The bottom spacer contains silica gel to absorb any moisture present in the unit when manufactured. |
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comfortably_numb
Member
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 87
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| Posted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| iceni wrote: |
You say the windows are manufactured by a local company (the fabricator), then fitted by your builder ? (the installer).
Therefore you need to know who the fabricator buys the PVC exrtusions from. (the sytems company).
They will have designed the system and had it tested to the relevant British Standards.
They expect thier fabricators to reach certain standards as poor workmanship reflects on their systems and its good name in the industry. So it is important that you find out who they are (Schuco. Rehau, Kommerling etc).
The silver centre piece refered to above is the 'glazing spacer' so the date on it is likely to be it's date of manufacture. The bottom spacer contains silica gel to absorb any moisture present in the unit when manufactured. |
Would Patiomaster be the "systems company" ?? |
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