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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:30 am 
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Hi I need some advice as I have to replace all skirting in the house and other cutting jobs.
I have been looking at the Dewalt DWS 780 radial saw but in your opinion are there others saws I should look at that would give me the Mitre both ways
I need the saw to be a 240 volt house use.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:52 am 
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I think that the main question has to be, "Do you actually need a saw that big?", so just how big is your new skirting? TBH most of the time I've used an SCMS (sliding compound mitre saw - no "radial" in there) over the last 20 odd years an 8in or 10in saw has been more than adequate, and that includes a fair few listed building fit-outs and refurbs where I've been dealing with shed loads of mouldings (often built-ups). On the few occasions when a 12in saw has been used it has been either a Makita 1214 or a deWalt DW708/718 (the predecessors to the DWS780) although for one job we did have a Milwaukee (and that really was big and heavy). The 12in saws are universally larger and heavier than their 10in bretheren, which makes them a bit of a back breaker to move about, and I personally find that they are more prone to the blade and slide bars both flexing in the cut - this is more noticeable when making bevelled (i.e. head tilted over) end trim cut (especially at the outer end of the cut) than when doing a plumb crosscut, but it does occur with all mitre saws. As to the alignment, the shadow line system used by DW is actually pretty neat (used it on the smaller 10in saws a few times) although I don't really rely on a laser of alignment system that much, despite having a dual laser on my saw of choice, the Festool Kapex KS120. Having a double bevel facility is very handy when doing loads of skirting, but it isn't an absolute necessity, especially when you consider that it is often necessary to "tickle" joints with a good sharp block plane to get a perfect fit

If you are buying an SCMS I'd suggest that you also need to look into a few other aspects. Firstly, how clean is the saw? Mitre saws generally have really poor dust extraction. Some are truly dreadful (e.g. the Bosch GCM12) whilst one or two are a lot better, but still less than ideal (e.g. Festool Kapex KS120). Secondly, it's downright stupid and positively dangerous to set a mitre saw up on the floor and work there - not to mention bad for your back - so have you thought about a support stand?

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OK, I'm an "old school" chippie, so please don't ask me to do a bodge job - I didn't bring my horse today and in any case you don't seem to have a hitching rail!



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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:35 am 
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Leaving aside the comments about mitre saws J&K has made , which are all ok , I'd question why anyone would really need to purchase a mitre saw just to fit skirting in one house. All the internal corners are going to be scribed anyway and in most rooms there's likely to be only a few external mitres present . Finding a room with no external mitres is not uncommon. A new handsaw is far cheaper and even doing it all by hand it won't take more than a day or two to do the whole house.
With regards to mitre saws I've used a fair few in my time. Without doubt the larger the blade the more versatile the machine but that needs to be traded off against cost and portability. I personally would have liked the 12" dewalt I have previously used but not owned . I've also used makitas off the same and smaller size and smaller dewalts and at the lower end of the market a Rexon that was decent enough save for the guards being as weak as anything and ending up being removed. As it was the motor packed up anyway. I've settled now on an 8" metabo which cuts 12" wide timber and after a little bit of fettling is fine. It's a compromise of cost etc but it does me fine.
I'm not 100% in agreement with J&K when he says it's dangerous to use a mitre saw on the floor. I and many others have used a machine in such a way and while I agree it's a bit more inconvenient having to keep getting up and down I don't see any more danger. In fact if one is working with very long lengths of timber it's probably safer as that timber is effectively supported by the floor.
If you do go for a stand and want to save money you can also just make your own . I've done that before. Knock up what is in effect an oversized saw horse . Mitre saws all have holes in the bases for screws and it's then a case of simply screwing through those into the big saw horse.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:45 pm 
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Grendel wrote:
I'm not 100% in agreement with J&K when he says it's dangerous to use a mitre saw on the floor. I and many others have used a machine in such a way and while I agree it's a bit more inconvenient having to keep getting up and down I don't see any more danger. In fact if one is working with very long lengths of timber it's probably safer as that timber is effectively supported by the floor.

Please bear in mind that I'm a (sometime) foreman who is responsible not only for my own safety, but also that of others - and having somebody working a floor below normal eye height is at the very least a trip hazard. In addition when working at floor level you do not have a clear view of the cutting area - your view of the saw blade position and material are obstructed by the saw arm and motor body which can lead to extra muscular strain (arm, neck and back) as well as reduced control of the material you are sawing (assuming that like most carpenters you hold the material against the back fence with your left hand). As you point out, though, manufacturers seem universally to provide saw bases with fixing holes so they can be fixed down onto a stand

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OK, I'm an "old school" chippie, so please don't ask me to do a bodge job - I didn't bring my horse today and in any case you don't seem to have a hitching rail!


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:54 pm 
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Hmm somebody working at floor level is a trip hazard? I know what you're saying but can't say I fully agree. The person using a stand becomes , by that logic , a trip hazard when he drops to fit the skirting or as a foreman do you insist they remain standing while fitting the skirting? And then there's decorators , electricians and carpet fitters...
Not trying to be funny , I do take and agree with your point that using a stand is more comfortable and better on the back .
This conversation puts me in mind of another I had with some re-enactor friends . The subject there was partly about logic but was centred around references to medieval forges being built on the floor as opposed to being raised ( portable forges rather than those in a permanent setting) and the argument was that raising was better for use and therefore logical that they would be raised , countered of course by building on the ground involved far less work and was thus equally logical.
Going back to the saw it does make me wonder just how far out the walls are to warrant compound cuts on the mitres?


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:16 pm 
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i have just helped a mate with his summer house and he wanted to work on the floor and it was a nightmare so i told him he could work on the floor but i would work off the dw7023 workstand :lol: :lol:
the extra work setting up allowed much more accurate cuts much easier and quicker cutting and less damage through bashing walls and timber in the confined space
it is far more than awkward on the floor as what comes natural and easily with a chopsaw at waist height is a nightmare in a similar way to trying to drive a car from the back seat or passenger seat as the perception and spacial awareness is all wrong :scratch:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:37 am 
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Point taken guys on safety.
I am forever walking round the house as I am the only one working on it at the moment removing trip hazzards but only for my own safety.
I intend to use a workstand as my back is shot.....far too many years working on yachts has left me with back problems.
The old council house has lots of external corners in it, nearly every room has at least two.
I feel a smaller lighter machine would meet my needs
I saw a DWS 780 up at the home farm where workmen were having to work around it, it seemed to be the focal point because of its size so now I feel that saw is way too big for my needs.
Some of the saws you guys mentioned I will have a look at.
Cheers for your thoughts and replies.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 8:21 am 
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Having lost my bigger saw in the fire, I recently bought a "Scheppach" HM80Lxu (French code), its 1500wt with 210mm blade, I also bought its stand, not done a lot yet but pleased with it so far, as far as the stand situation, like so many of us it seems I also have a bad back and prolonged working from the floor is not good, however when building the house I did spend a lot of time knelt over, but because Iam not a Pro and didnt have a deadline, I only did a few hours at a time. Nos


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:14 pm 
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Grendel wrote:
Hmm somebody working at floor level is a trip hazard? I know what you're saying but can't say I fully agree. The person using a stand becomes , by that logic , a trip hazard when he drops to fit the skirting or as a foreman do you insist they remain standing while fitting the skirting?

No, but the HSE agrees with me that you cannot watch out for others when you are bent over working at a saw on the floor - and they will fine those who transgress, both workers and managers. As an apprentice I was taught that joiners should cut on sawing stools or stands - although it is difficult to use a hand saw at floor level by the nature of how it works (and with the comment that "only animals and floorers cut stuff on the floor, boy"). Floorers have no choice in the matter at all because of the nature of what they do. When you install skirting you have no choice, but then you aren't operating a tool which can happily remove fingers, and you DO have a choice. Electricians generally aren't operating anything as potentially dangerous as a chop saw (and when they do get near them the generally scare the bejaysus out of me). So this isn't the same as re-enactors - it's basic safety. I have got to say, though, that if you ever do have to work on your knees bent over a chop saw for days (as I have had to in the past on a few shop fits) the effect on your back isn't good - and only gets worse with age

Grendel wrote:
Going back to the saw it does make me wonder just how far out the walls are to warrant compound cuts on the mitres?

Me too

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OK, I'm an "old school" chippie, so please don't ask me to do a bodge job - I didn't bring my horse today and in any case you don't seem to have a hitching rail!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:03 pm 
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Well I had a good look around and got pretty confused but I have decided on the Bosch GCM 8 SJL
I am sure this saw will meet all of my needs.
I am going for a work stand as well as I am finding at my age the last thing I want to do is scrabble around on the floor.
Is there anything else I should take into consideration that might have missed ?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:50 pm 
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I hope that your choice of saw works for you. Bosch isn't a bad make and their stuff is generally pretty robust with long term spares availability being very good.

Two main things, I'd say, are to get or make yourself a decent base to support the saw at about waist height (with adequate long material support), and make sure that whenever possible you have a vacuum cleaner or dust extractor attached to the saw (but also wear a mask because no mitre saw has brilliant dust extraction!). A base can be knocked together using a dismantled pallet or two in the cheapest instance with a couple of quick and dirty trestles to support the material length, or at best you could go for a fancy mitre saw stand. From experience the two I'd recommend are the deWalt DE7023 large stand and the smaller DE7033. I have also had a pair of the trestles derived from the DE7033 (called a DE7035) for a couple of years now and other than being a bit big and heavy they are undoubtedly the most robust trestles I've ever used. Only downside of these DWs is that they are rather pricey

Mods: Any chance that the title of this thread could be changed from "Double compound radial mitre saw" to just "Double compound mitre saw"? The use of the term "radial" (as in radial arm saw) infers a completely different saw type which may well confuse the unwary or unknowing. Thanks

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OK, I'm an "old school" chippie, so please don't ask me to do a bodge job - I didn't bring my horse today and in any case you don't seem to have a hitching rail!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:09 pm 
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have altered the origional and your last post heading hopfully sorted now :dunno:

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