DIY Forum

 

Ultimate Handyman Ultimate Handyman Ultimate Handyman Ultimate HandymanUltimate Handyman on Pinterest

 

DIY Forum/Home improvement advice forum

 

 

A-Z CONTENTS | DISCLAIMER | DIY VIDEO | HOME | SAFETY FIRST | FORUM RULES

It is currently Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:23 pm
Visit Thermo worx


Time zone: Europe/London




 

 


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 87 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 7:06 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:45 am
Posts: 1247
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 130 times
Thanks for the pic; it makes everything clear re the earths.

At the moment, I can't see an easy way of freeing a wire for the pump, which should be powered directly from the boiler. Do you agree, thescruff?


Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on DiggShare on DeliciousShare on Google+
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 7:56 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:45 am
Posts: 1247
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 130 times
Concentrating on the three cables which go into the wall and down to the boiler room, as we would have to use one of the wires to connect the pump to the boiler, we have the following;

Cable 1
Red comes from Programmer CH ON
Yellow comes from Programmer HW ON
Blue comes from boiler Switched Live

Cable 2
Red comes from Room Thermostat terminal 1
Yellow comes from Room Thermostat Terminal 3
Blue comes from ? (possibly Room Thermostat 2)
Green/Yellow comes from ?

Cable 3
Red is supply Live to Junction box
Black is supply Neutral to Junction box
Green/Yellow is supply earth to Junction box

The T4160 Thermostat is almost an antique and should really be replaced at the same time as the boiler. The T4160 requires three wires: Live, Switch Live and Neutral. Modern thermostats do not need a neutral as they use an electronic temperature sensor, not a mechanical one. So the Blue wire in cable 2 would be free (assuming it connects to Room stat 2).

The problem is: how do we make use of it?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 10:38 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:46 am
Posts: 49688
Location: Bath
Has thanked: 422 times
Been thanked: 3902 times
D Hailsham wrote:
Thanks for the pic; it makes everything clear re the earths.

At the moment, I can't see an easy way of freeing a wire for the pump, which should be powered directly from the boiler. Do you agree, thescruff?


Yes Dave it should.

It may be possible to free up the room stat, Yellow, Red, Blue if a wireless stat was used.

One red (5) most go back to the boiler/prog as must the switch live (blue) in connector 2.

One could be used for the pump and the other for the boiler s/live we may be on to something.



For this message the author thescruff has received gratitude : peterfoster
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 10:16 am 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:45 am
Posts: 1247
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 130 times
thescruff wrote:
It may be possible to free up the room stat, Yellow, Red, Blue if a wireless stat was used.

That's what I thought (see my post before yours). The problem is - how do we use this wire?

The room thermostat is probably in the hall with the cable back to the wiring centre buried in the wall. Running a new cable from wiring centre to the boiler seems a no-no. Would it be possible to extend the cable from room stat location to the boiler?

The ST699 and T4061 could be replaced by a Honeywell Sundial RF² Pack 2 kit (ST9420C wireless enabled programmer and DT92E wireless thermostat) with only wiring changes at the programmer location due to a different back plate.

The current junction box will need replacing with a proper 10 pair wiring centre as a ninth connector will be needed for the pump overrun.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 4:38 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:45 am
Posts: 1247
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 130 times
There is a cable, visible in the pic of the boiler, from the left of the programmer and disappearing under the boiler.

Presumably this is the power to the boiler. How many wires in this cable?

The new boiler will probably need a five-wire cable (Live, Neutral, Earth, Switched Live, Pump Live)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 7:55 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:46 am
Posts: 49688
Location: Bath
Has thanked: 422 times
Been thanked: 3902 times
Sorry Dave bit busy with our presentation evening next Friday

A WB Ri would need a Pump live back to the boiler plus a switch live from the two Mv.

Could the programmer be moved to the airing cupboard which would free up T3 & T4.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 8:47 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:45 am
Posts: 1247
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 130 times
thescruff wrote:
Could the programmer be moved to the airing cupboard which would free up T3 & T4.

That would be possible; but it's not very convenient for the user. We also have to consider wireless signal strenght/reliability if programmer is upstairs and thermostat downstairs.

Cable No 2 serves the wall stat. It would be helpful to know if it went anywhere near the boiler.

We need some input from Peter (hint)!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 8:56 pm 
Offline
Newly registered Member

Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:34 pm
Posts: 59
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 0 times
Apologies for the delay on responding, guys. I've been in Chesterfield all day at a beer festival so please expect even less sense from me than is usually the case. I chased British Gas today and their suggestion echoes yours, thescruff - viz - relocate the boiler controls to the airing cupboard and make them wireless.

I'll post early tomorrow with (hopefully) a fuller and more coherent response. Thanks.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 9:49 pm 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:46 am
Posts: 49688
Location: Bath
Has thanked: 422 times
Been thanked: 3902 times
D Hailsham wrote:
thescruff wrote:
Could the programmer be moved to the airing cupboard which would free up T3 & T4.

That would be possible; but it's not very convenient for the user. We also have to consider wireless signal strenght/reliability if programmer is upstairs and thermostat downstairs.

Cable No 2 serves the wall stat. It would be helpful to know if it went anywhere near the boiler.

We need some input from Peter (hint)!



I think the blue in Con 2 is the boiler switch live.

In the same Grey cable i think.

Blue switch live to boiler.

Yellow DHW call (prog 3)

Red guess prog 4 HTG call.

I also have a sneaky feeling all the wires go back to the programmer then out again.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 3:42 pm 
Offline
Newly registered Member

Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:34 pm
Posts: 59
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 0 times
"There is a cable, visible in the pic of the boiler, from the left of the programmer and disappearing under the boiler."

David. I've had a look and I'm almost certain this white cable has three wires. One is sort-of a browny colour, one is blue and one is striped green and yellow.

We're happy to bear any inconvenience associated with relocating the programmer to the airing cupboard if it means that we can have our boiler of choice - viz - Worcester Bosch Greenstar Ri24 Regular Boiler.

My next door neighbour whose house was built at the same time as mine by the same builder had an identical boiler to mine which was replaced by British Gas last year for a Worcester Bosh Greenstar Ri30. He tells me he did not require any "inconvenient" work such as taking up floor boards and carpet and knocking holes in the wall by reason of the need to expand his existing wiring situation. I have asked British Gas again today (or rather there rep who is trying to sell me a boiler) to find out precisely how they got round the wiring issues without too much trouble when they replaced the Potterton Netaheat 16/22 with the Worcester.

Here's a picture showing a diagram which is a bird's eye view of the current set-up as regards the relative positions of the airing cupboard junction box, wall thermostat and boiler/boiler programmer. The pink is upstairs and the yellow downstairs. As you can see, curiously, there is a 3-pin plug socket on the upstairs landing which is "in line" with the airing cupboard junction box and a wall light switch "in line" with the (downstairs) boiler/boiler programmer. I don't know if this is useful-
Image

I note:

1. We could free up a wire by installing a modern wall thermostat but we would still have an issue with relocating the wire in such as way as to be of use.

2. British Gas tell us that they can relocate the programmer to the airing cupboard with something called "hive."

3. We need to upgrade the wall stat.

4. We need to upgrade the junction box in the airing cupboard.

Thanks.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:21 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:45 am
Posts: 1247
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 130 times
peterfoster wrote:
British Gas tell us that they can relocate the programmer to the airing cupboard with something called "hive."

The Hive is a BG "intelligent" programmable thermostat, which can be controlled by an App on your smart phone/tablet (assuming you have one) or PC. Read all about it. It's up to you to decide if it its useful.

Using a Hive is not the only way of doing it.

I'm sorry, but I can't understand your diagram showing the relative locations of the components.

Have you considered using an independent Gas Safe Registered engineer? They will give you a wider choice of boilers and, more importantly, be reasonably priced.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:29 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:45 am
Posts: 1247
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 130 times
thescruff wrote:
I also have a sneaky feeling all the wires go back to the programmer then out again.

Cable 1 definitely goes to the programmer: Red (T5)= CH ON; Yellow (T7) = HW ON); Blue (T2) = SW/L.

It's cable 2 which serves the room stat: Red (T5) = RS1; Yellow (T4) = RS3. Then I assume: Blue (T8) = RS2 and G/Y = ??.

If this cable can be diverted to the boiler, we're cut and dried. (I'm assuming a Sundial RF2 version 2.)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 10:07 pm 
Offline
Newly registered Member

Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:34 pm
Posts: 59
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 0 times
British Gas won't get the sale unless they are competitive. I also have an independent quoting. Thanks for the information relating to the wireless programmer. I note that I don't need the Hive.

I'm sorry the diagram is unclear. It's a bird's eye view showing the locations of the boiler/boiler controls, the wall stat and the main junction box in the airing cupboard. The first two are in yellow (downstairs) and the third is in pink (upstairs.) Looking at the diagram, the wiring probably goes under the floorboards from the airing cupboard in a northerly direction, as it were, until it reaches the wall, then it travels down inside the wall cavity to the boiler.

I don't think we can divert any wiring from the wall stat without knocking the house about, which I am reluctant to do.

I think the relocation of a wireless version of the programmer could be the best option.

I await a communication from British Gas informing me of the manner by which they were able to successfully install a Worcester regular boiler in the house next door last year without the need for "intrusive" extra wiring.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:09 am 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2007 11:45 am
Posts: 1247
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 130 times
You don't give the impression that you are a "Hive" type of person.

I have managed to work out your location diagram

I can understand your reluctance to knock walls down.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 10:30 am 
Offline
Newly registered Member

Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:34 pm
Posts: 59
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 0 times
[quote="D Hailsham"I can understand your reluctance to knock walls down.[/quote]

I didn't get where I am today knocking walls down, Reggie....
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 87 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next


Similar topics
   

Time zone: Europe/London


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Visit Hilti


 

 

 

News News Site map Site map SitemapIndex SitemapIndex RSS Feed RSS Feed Channel list Channel list
ultimatehandyman privacy policy

Contact

 

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group

phpBB SEO