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ARFJ
Junior Member
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 21
Location: London
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 Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:40 pm Post subject: Direct Megaflo, think plumber made mistakes please advise! |
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Good evening.
I'd like to thank everyone for the recent advice with regard to my upgrading my plumbing system from gravity fed to higher pressure (pump? direct cylinder? etc)
I decided to go for the direct cylinder option, and purchased a Megaflo DD.
It was installed today by a London-based plumbing company, but I do have a few questions about the practices the plumber employed.
If anyone could confirm my queries I'd much appreciate it:
Photo 1 - showing overall plumbing and hot 22mm out of tank touching cold 22mm feed to kitchen
Photo 2 - close-up of above
Photo 3 - various pipework and discharge pipe
Photo 4 - Does this not look bent at bottom pushfit connector? Leak is here!
Also, I was surprised that brass compression weren't used - when i asked the plumber he told me the plastic push-fit he was using everywhere were much better, more durable, and cost a lot more than brass fittings. Is it normal to use plastic push-fit or were they just trying to save money and take me for a ride?
Additionally, there is a rather loud wooshing noise when I turn on the hot outlet in one of my baths. The other outlets I can test are the kitchen hot and the basin hot. Others are capped due to my renovating the other bathroom so I can't compare noises. This is rather too loud than any other plumbing I have heard before.
The plumber is coming first thing in the morning to fix the leak, so if there is anything else someone can spot that requires attention then please let me know.
I paid £700 for this to be installed and did all the removal (old hot tank and header tank) myself so it was just a matter of moving one 15mm pipe, one waste, fitting the cylinder pipework, and connecting the electrics.
Thank you in advance for your insight.
ARFJ
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1 user(s) is/are thankful for this post.
cruise(28-10, 21:05), Thanks ARFJ for his/her post
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thescruff
Senior Member
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 5665
Location: Bath
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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If you gave him a cheque,, Stop it
I'll get to you in a few minutes.
In the meantime can you post a full pic of the cylinder and the fittings please.
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Scruff |
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Razor
Senior Member
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 171
Location: Northampton
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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I am having real difficulty following the pipework strange considering I have fitted nearly 20 unvented cylinders so far this year!
Did you see the installers unvented qualification?
Can you get any better pics? The installation is definitely wrong but can't say if it's immediately dangerous at the moment, if I was you I would turn it off for now. |
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ARFJ
Junior Member
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 21
Location: London
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for your responses.
Please follow this link for complete photos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/31655292@N02/
Thank you most sincerely for your input.
ARFJ |
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ajstone
Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 67
Location: cambridgeshire
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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Its hard to believe a Plumber installed this cylinder with so much done badly or wrong it doesn't comply with either the G3 or part L regs. I suppose it may have been installed otside of the UK. 
It might have looked better if he'd cleaned the flux from his soldered work  |
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thescruff
Senior Member
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 5665
Location: Bath
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.ribaproductselector.com/Docs/AGCerts/AG953094.pdf?ac=
Connections.
5.12 The system is designed to be connected to copper tube conforming to BS 2871 : Part1 : 1971, Table X, Y and Z, using conventional plumbing fittings (see Table 1 for details of connecting sizes and threads) The connections are of adequate size.
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Scruff |
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ARFJ
Junior Member
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 21
Location: London
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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ajstone, thank you very much for your reply.
Would you please explain how this installation is noncompliant with the G3 or part L regulations.
Thank you |
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ARFJ
Junior Member
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 21
Location: London
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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thescruff, are you saying that the plastic pushfit connectors are inadequate and another sort of fitting should have been used?
Does 'conventional plumbing fittings' mean welded joints and compression joints? |
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ajstone
Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 67
Location: cambridgeshire
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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Ask your plumber to a confirm it complies with G3 then point him in the direction of his discharge pipework.
Ask him if he has finished installing the cylinder, if he has, ask him where the pipework insulation is.
The pipework is 5hite but seen all to often these days. |
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ajstone
Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 67
Location: cambridgeshire
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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When the strainer needs cleaning(and it will) you're going to need to drain the cylinder because of the way he has fitted the combi valve
Ask him about the balanced cold.
It looks like he made it up as he went along. |
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thescruff
Senior Member
Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 5665
Location: Bath
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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And ask to see the filled in Benchmark log book with his signature on it.
Yes the discharge is all wrong and unacceptable.
At the very least he should have use compression fittings.
See the link I posted for the BRE.
How has he wired the immersion heaters, do they conform to part P, has he done a certificate for the electrical work.
The whole job is such a mess, we have to be concerned about the safety of the installation, ask to see his G3 qualifications, as well as the electric one.
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Scruff |
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ARFJ
Junior Member
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 21
Location: London
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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The installation is complete, and I was told that the discharge could be plumbed directly into the waste.
It is my understanding that *normally* there should be two visible points of exit for the discharge. This is generally through a tundish near the cylinder and at an outside gutter or drain.
However, the G3 states:
"d. have discharges visible at both the tundish and the final point of discharge, but where this is not possible or is practically difficullt there should be clear visibilty at one or other of these locations."
Since this was installed in a prefabricated concrete flat, it wasn't possible to run the discharge pipework through a wall and down a gutter. I confirmed with Heatrae Sadia that the discharge could go directly into the soil stack, provided it was metal and the tundish was clearly visible.
That having been said, I am certainly not condoning the work the plumber produced today - I do not have the knowledge for that. |
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Razor
Senior Member
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 171
Location: Northampton
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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And its going to be great fun changing the temp relief valve in 18 months time (average for megaflo) once that wall above the bath goes up.
Biggest giveaway to a bad unvented installation is always the discharge pipe, thats not a tundish its a piece of 22mm pipe hovering above a u bend that will not take the heat it will potentially be exposed to. |
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ARFJ
Junior Member
Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 21
Location: London
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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I appreciate the time taken to respond to my questions.
I am very grateful to you all.
Would the errors in this installation be grounds for non-payment?
Moreover, if the required plumbing certificates, G3 and unvented, are not produced by the plumber, would it be advisable to take legal action? |
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ajstone
Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 67
Location: cambridgeshire
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| Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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And the Tundish can be seen on -----------ebay------ soon.
As you've taken the time to read about discharge pipework check the pipework including measurements against your installation.
There are times when special arrangements are needed for discharge but they are usually thought out and installed correctly. |
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