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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:09 am 
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Morning forum,

is there someone who can help me with an idiots guide to installing a din rail timer in my consumer unit to control 2 outside lights which are currently working from a with in the hall way.
i will attach the timer i have see on eBay which i was hoping would work, any info back would be greatly appreciated.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DIN-Rail-Digital-LCD-Power-Programmable-Timer-DC-12V-16A-Time-Relay-Switch-UK-/221798548586?epid=505094947&hash=item33a439446a:g:o-YAAOSwFjlZqANy


regards


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:14 am 
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If you don't know how to do it you shouldn't be doing it

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:16 am 
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lenario wrote:
If you don't know how to do it you shouldn't be doing it

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Not helpful lenario.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:26 am 
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Ok it's against the law for him to do

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:44 am 
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woking-1976 from what you have said it is not easily possible to achieve your goal. I shall expand on that.

Your external lights are controlled from a nearby switch.
The lights will (probably) be fed from the lighting circuit. The other end of the cable will be in the consumers unit. If you connect this cable to the timer, yes it will turn the external lights on and off according to the time, but it will also turn all the lights on the lighting circuit on and off at the same time.


You have two choices.

1) Run a new cable from both lights to the consumers unit and connect this to the timer.
2) Install a timer (You can use the one you linked to) after the switch and disconnect / by pass the switch.


I would also have to say that a consumers unit is not an ideal place to "add things / touch, if you do not know what you are doing" or in other words what lenario first said is not wrong. (But he / she could have been more specific)

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For this message the author someone-else has received gratitude : woking-1976
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 10:45 am 
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First point is the time you show is 12 VDC so not really suitable, the second is a consumer unit is a type tested distribution board and to retain the type testing only devices recommended by the manufacturer can be fitted inside the unit, you can't mix and match.

I have an Energenie MyHome light switch in my room, it has three timers Image set as seen in the diagram, likely not what you want as needs a hub to set timers, however that is closer to what you require, with IFTTT you can program the switches to do all sorts like switch on when bad weather is forecast, it is controlled with Smart Phone, PC, or remote control, but only the latter works without hub and internet.

Hive, Home Easy, LightwaveRF, Smartwares and many others do timed and remote control switches, what you need to do is work out which suits your needs. My switch only has three built in timers, although using IFTTT you can add more, the remote controlled plug in socket in the range is just like the switch, but the socket which also monitors can not be used with a remote control. The socket which replaces a double socket will work with up to three remote controls but does not monitor power used, so even within the MiHome range you need to read carefully to see what they will do. A simple wall mounted time switch Image will likely do what you want, without modifying the inside of a consumer unit.

I would reword the question, I want to XYZ what is the best way. The problem in the real world is although something may do what you want, it may cost an arm and a leg, but something which is good enough but not quite ideal may be very cheap. So explain what you want from the lights.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:03 am 
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What is confusing too is that the ebay listing says dc, but the device shown is distinctly ac!

Colin


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:17 am 
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lenario wrote:
If you don't know how to do it you shouldn't be doing it

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I would agree, however unless like in my post you explain why, then the poster may get completely the wrong idea. I know to add a new circuit comes under Part P in some areas of the UK, but quoting Part P is not helpful as it does not cover whole of the UK. We need to say why it technically should not be done rather than quote laws which may or may not be valid where they live.

I now you can get bell transformers, relays and timers to fit some consumer units, even in some cases 12 volt power supplies built into the consumer unit with blade fuses for 12 volt and MCB for 230 volt. Even buttons to change the polarity. However rather specialised and only seen them fitted to caravans which are not covered by building regulations of course as not a building.

If we were to follow BS7671:2008 there is very little any DIY can do as it requires expensive equipment to inspect and test, and everything we do should be inspected and tested, if there for we follow those rules there is little point to this page of the forum as we should be telling every poster they can't do it. However if we can guide people to safer methods, even if not totally safe then that must be good.

To comment that it will cost more to DIY if following the law than to get a scheme member electrician to do the work is OK, it is true with the silly prices charged by the local authorities in Wales last time I looked it was just 5% of job cost, but first bracket is £2000 so minimum charge is £100 plus vat. In England each council can set their own charges.

Years ago the idea of outside lights having both PIR control and timers so they only work when you likely require them. So cats will not waste you power at 2 am and any intruder will likely injure himself trying to get through your garden made some sense with up to 150 W lamps being used without planning permission. Today with LED lighting it likely costs more buying PIR and time switches than the lamp ever uses, so not so important to have timers on the lamp, a simple PIR is enough to satisfy regulations. And it seems we take pity on the intruder and light his way in he steps into your pond or a rake left out. Personally I have that mean streak and would like to use inferred lighting and a camera so I can laugh as his miss fortune as he steps on that rake! However we have official visitors so I have to provide visible light for their safety.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:20 am 
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camallison wrote:
What is confusing too is that the ebay listing says dc, but the device shown is distinctly ac!

Colin

I expect 12 DC to work clock, but contacts rated at 230 Vac?

Seems to be a genetic picture used for all models, looking at picture looks like 110 volt coil and 230 volt contacts rated 8A for inductive loads and 16A for resistive loads. this data sheet hard to read as much is Chinese however it seems to show 12, 24, 36, 48, and 110 volt versions are made. And contacts rated 220 volt.


Last edited by ericmark on Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:30 am 
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Either way you want to look at it, a din rail time switch is not suitable in this instance.

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Take it easy, a forum is only a collection of opinions. Above, are mine.

Which is correct? Metre or Meter? Click the link. to find out more.

No such thing as "Thou shalt put this wire here, Thou shalt put that wire there" .............Take a picture BEFORE you do the job.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:31 pm 
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Thanks for all the comments guys it is greatly appreciated just wondering could i not use one of these?

http://uk.farnell.com/timeguard/fst11/time-switch-fused-spur/dp/987037

i could put it in the airing cupboard which gives me easy access to the ruling new cable if needed.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:38 pm 
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Image This timer is listed as a 24 Hour Mechanical Timer for Sentry Consumer Unit, it does however cost £61.40 plus VAT. The digital version Image looks very like the one the poster selected, but £104.50 so there is nothing wrong with the idea.

Clearly 12 volt operation is non starter, but if the manufacturer of his consumer unit does a timer to fit then nothing to stop some one with the required skill fitting one.

OK £120 to LABC and £104.50 for the device plus vat and any tester the LABC think required means the job is going to cost around £250 to DIY but that does not mean it can't be done.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:40 pm 
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woking-1976 wrote:
Thanks for all the comments guys it is greatly appreciated just wondering could i not use one of these?

http://uk.farnell.com/timeguard/fst11/t ... /dp/987037

i could put it in the airing cupboard which gives me easy access to the ruling new cable if needed.


I would say yes, but do say what exactly you want to do may be better options.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:31 pm 
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woking-1976 wrote:
Thanks for all the comments guys it is greatly appreciated just wondering could i not use one of These


You could............if on the right hand side it didn't say "No Longer Manufactured"

It does then list alternatives, but even they are expensive.

If you just want to turn a couple of lights on and off at a specific time why not opt for One of these

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Take it easy, a forum is only a collection of opinions. Above, are mine.

Which is correct? Metre or Meter? Click the link. to find out more.

No such thing as "Thou shalt put this wire here, Thou shalt put that wire there" .............Take a picture BEFORE you do the job.

If gloom had a voice, it would be me. :mrgreen:

:idea1: How to post a picture on this forum Click here


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:55 pm 
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once again thank you for all your help.

Since my father past away my mum feels unsafe at home, she wants 2 lights either side of the front door so if anyone knocks or comes on the drive she can see them before they see her.
At the moment my mum has one light which comes on via a switch in the hall way.
She would like the lights to come on at 5.00 and off at 12.00 during the winter and turn on later in the summer obviously.
i also want the switch in the hall way to remain operational in the eventuality the lights need to be turned on late at night for whatever reason.

thanks


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