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 Post subject: Corner garden shelter
PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:51 pm 
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Hi all,

I was hoping to get some advice on how I would go about building the above. Done a lot of searching on the Internet but struggling to find anything that matches what I am after.

Basically, I want to build or purchase a slightly angled roofed or pent roofed pegola / garden shelter. It will be like the photo attached but with a covered roof. Plan is to erect over a new patio to create a sheltered dry area in the corner of the garden for some furniture and gas bbq. It will be a pentagon shape with back two sides enclosed. Front three sides will be open. I have seen some with a square roof but the corner would extend too far over the patio, hence the pentagon shape like a corner shed without the three front sides.

Does anyone know where these are sold in the UK (delivery to hampshire) or where I could get some rough plans to build myself. I have a couple of months off work and diy is not an issue. It will be fun to build.

Dimensions of the two long sides would be about 4 meters.

Thanks in advance.

Scott


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:49 am 
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Im guessing you mean a square shape but with a corner cut off?

I would say the simplest construction would be a dead flat roof, then add on firrings to create a fall.

If you want to be more ambitious, I imagine the front 3 shorter sides would be set level, then the 2 long sides that meet at 90deg in the rear corner would slope down with the rear corner being the lowest.

You could form the roof with 4 beams coming from the 4 corners and meeting at a post at the rear, like 1/4 of a spoked wagon wheel. It can be done but is quite awkward cutting the angles. The simplest way would be to make the end cuts of theses beams a simple angled cut not compound cuts.

You could get a chippie to come and pitch the main structural parts of the roof for you and then you could do the rest.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:50 am 
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Just thinking out loud...........as what you are wanting will be unique to you / your garden (You have specific requirements and ideas) I don't see how you will find either plans for one or where you can buy one ready made. So I can only suggest you draw your own plans and post them on here where we can offer advice.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:39 pm 
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Really appreciate the feedback folks.

Soneone-else - thank you, that is sound advice. I will draw up plans once I've got my head around the basic structure.

I have just found the following as a Google image. It links to a German website so no chance of buying one but if I could deconstruct how they did it, this structure meets the bill perfectly.

Looks like they have installed 5 uprights, connected them up with 5 cross members, and then run timber front to back. I think it means the cuts into the timbers are at varying angles, thoughts everyone?

Also, it looks like they have shiplap running left to right which means they have created a fully flat but angled roof tilted front to back (highest at front).

I up for doing this but would be useful to get your thoughts on whether my interpretation is correct.

Getting very excited about doing this now!

Thanks again.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:32 pm 
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I reckon make the roof flat, add firrings front to back, all parallel.

Then fit a gutter along the low edge.

The other sides will need upstands to prevent drips.

The upstand across the front will need to be taller than the firrings.

Fall is min 1 in 80, although 1in 40 is considered good practice for a roof with felt since it allows water to shed over bumps, overlaps and warping joists. I do 1 in 60 generally for fibreglass roofs.

For a flat roof like this, Id suggest epdm


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:23 am 
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Attempt so far at design. needs a lot more work.

Posts and frame all 6x6 with 7' height for the front 4 posts and 6'6" for the rear corner post. Problem is that it gets very complicated with the beams. See second picture using 2x6. Going to take some thinking unless I go for the flat roof idea.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:27 am 
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You'd be far better off if you assembled your ring frame using halving joints with a "pin" (tusk tenon at the tops of the posts, mortise vertically through the ring beams) through them to tie the whole lot together. As suggested earlier kep the roof supports flat and nail tapered firring strips to the top to to get the fall (any decent timber merchant should be able to saw them to spec.) Trying to cut different joints for each joist may lead to madness - or at the very least extreme frustration

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:12 pm 
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Thank you.

I am redesigning as suggested. Mortice on back three beams has been put at 3x3 inches, but on the two front beams because of the angle the mortice is 2x2 inches. Is this ok?

Also, what's the best way of attaching the joists to the beams and what size should I use - 2 × 6?

I'll post latest design once done.

Really appreciate all the help.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:00 pm 
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Right its been a really busy evening. This is where I have got to:

4m x 4m garden shelter (with front corner cut off)
6x6 posts
6x6 beam ring with halving joints and tusk tenon/mortice joint - mortice is 3x3 for back three posts but 2x2 for front two due to angle - Is this ok?
2x6 for joists with slots cut out 2 inches deep - plan to screw down through top of joist and into beams? Is this correct thing to do?
2x8 board around the top sides - screwed into end of joists with some extra support at ends

To add:
1) Another 8x2 board 2 inches higher around the sides at the top - looks better and need more depth for roof for firrings / T&C / material
2) Firrings to create a fall 1 in 60 fall (2.4 inch fall over 12 feet at longest diagonal)
3) T&G roof
4) EPDM cover
5) Figure out how to attach T&G in back 2 side walls
6) Work out how to attach guttering

Comments welcome folks.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:39 am 
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You could set your ring beam in front of the posts rather than on top and then screw / bolt through the sides into the posts

the posts could be a bit longer and finish to the top of your joists so your beams are not screwed near the end of the posts.

T&G on the roof is fine for the interior looking up, not ideal for EPDM. Id be tempted to overboard the with 18mm OSB

The rear wall t and g can be fitted by making stud frames to fit in between the rear posts. IE 2 uprights, top and bottom rail, intermediate studs as required.

Guttering will only be needed on 1 rear side


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:12 am 
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Thanks Notch. I read that you shouldn't put a sheer force on bolts which I think would happen if I put the ring beam in front of the posts or shoudn't I worry about that?

Thanks for the other bits of advice, I will include it in the design.

In terms of the joists, to attach them to the ring beam should I just screw through the top of the joist and down into the beam? I am conscious that the structure could at as a sail and these screws will be the bits holding the roof on.

Thoughts?

Also, is that 12' span for the centre joist ok in 2x6?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:21 pm 
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Quote:
Thanks Notch. I read that you shouldn't put a sheer force on bolts which I think would happen if I put the ring beam in front of the posts or shoudn't I worry about that?


The shear force on the bolts is small and wont have any impact on overall strength of the shelter. If you think about it, lateral restraint from wind will be more of an issue than downward loading on the fixings. If you are concerned about it then you could cut into the posts a bit and let in the beams so the downward force is resting on a shoulder rather than the bolts.

If the post run up to the top of the joists, then the strength gained by setting the bolt holes further from the ends of the post will gain more in strength than the shear force imposed by side fixing.

Also if you mount on the top of the posts you have fixings down into the end grain of the posts which has limited holding power.

span tables for flat roof joists are here:
https://www.broxbourne.gov.uk/resident- ... span-guide

Bear in mind though that may be overkill for your application, span tables are for house construction and the 0.75Kn /m2 loading allows for a 1 metre depth of snow! 6x2 is prob ok given most of your joists will be shorter.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:08 pm 
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Thank you for you advice. Brilliant.

The final question was about the joists. Should i screw down from the top of the 2×6 into the beam to secure them?

Thanks


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:41 pm 
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Swilky wrote:
Thank you for you advice. Brilliant.

The final question was about the joists. Should i screw down from the top of the 2×6 into the beam to secure them?

Thanks


You'd need some very long (and probably expensive) screws.

99% of chippies would just tosh nail or screw from the side. You could also use something like a truss clip.

One thing I've not seen mentioned yet is fixing the bottom of the posts to the ground, don't ignore that.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 4:36 pm 
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Yes you are right. I've been considering either sinking 2 foot and concreting in. However, replacement would be a nightmmare.

Or what about a post shoe. Something like the picture on the left looks good.

Thoughts?


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