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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:13 am 
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steviejoiner74 wrote:
OchAye wrote:
Rorschach wrote:
Unionised and working on public money, at no point in the hierarchy does anyone lose out if the work is late, over priced or poor quality. Makes my blood boil.


Much better on 0 hours contracts with self-employed status, no pension, no sickness ... We might as well get the 8 year olds to sweep the chimneys of the middle classes "log burners".


Jobs with guilt edge pensions,full sick pay and fantastic holidays within the public sector are fine within certain areas like the emergency services and nhs. However when you are running a council building services operation with a bottomless pit of tax payers money and no deadlines,no real productivity and over staffing then it’s an absolute recipe for disaster.


Stevie you seem to view council workmen as representing everyone who works for the council which I can assure you is not the case.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:22 am 
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Barring the odd individual I reckon Stevie hit the nail on the head. It's not as if a greater proportion (i.e. over 50%) are much/any different from what he describes. But I blame the management.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:42 am 
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kellys_eye wrote:
Barring the odd individual I reckon Stevie hit the nail on the head. It's not as if a greater proportion (i.e. over 50%) are much/any different from what he describes. But I blame the management.


On what are you basing this opinion?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:46 pm 
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Argyll wrote:
steviejoiner74 wrote:
OchAye wrote:
Rorschach wrote:
Unionised and working on public money, at no point in the hierarchy does anyone lose out if the work is late, over priced or poor quality. Makes my blood boil.


Much better on 0 hours contracts with self-employed status, no pension, no sickness ... We might as well get the 8 year olds to sweep the chimneys of the middle classes "log burners".


Jobs with guilt edge pensions,full sick pay and fantastic holidays within the public sector are fine within certain areas like the emergency services and nhs. However when you are running a council building services operation with a bottomless pit of tax payers money and no deadlines,no real productivity and over staffing then it’s an absolute recipe for disaster.


Stevie you seem to view council workmen as representing everyone who works for the council which I can assure you is not the case.
I'd say it's as simple as this.

If you want people to manage their time well and make jobs profitable, price work or production bonus is the way to go.

If you want people to plan their days around breaks and look forward to knocking off time, take them on the books and put them on daywork with a nice pension scheme and holiday and sick pay etc.

There may be the odd exceptional person either way, and neither guarantees a better or worse standard, but it's human nature.



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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:48 pm 
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Argyll wrote:
steviejoiner74 wrote:
OchAye wrote:
Rorschach wrote:
Unionised and working on public money, at no point in the hierarchy does anyone lose out if the work is late, over priced or poor quality. Makes my blood boil.


Much better on 0 hours contracts with self-employed status, no pension, no sickness ... We might as well get the 8 year olds to sweep the chimneys of the middle classes "log burners".


Jobs with guilt edge pensions,full sick pay and fantastic holidays within the public sector are fine within certain areas like the emergency services and nhs. However when you are running a council building services operation with a bottomless pit of tax payers money and no deadlines,no real productivity and over staffing then it’s an absolute recipe for disaster.


Stevie you seem to view council workmen as representing everyone who works for the council which I can assure you is not the case.


I’m talking about council tradesmen here,and I use the term tradesmen loosely. I’ve worked on numerous jobs amongst them as a subby and my experience of them isn’t good. 80-90% of the guys(and several woman) out of hundreds have been well below standard in terms of skill,knowledge and understanding and most are just dam lazy. Constantly they complain about the crap wages they get yet won’t move away from the safety bubble of doing very little work and doing it to a poor standard as they couldn’t hack it in the private sector.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:07 pm 
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Stevie my question was aimed at KE.

I'm well aware of your views on council tradesmen and I agree with you about 80% although I know some very good tradesmen. But not all council staff are work as tradesmen.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:19 am 
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So carillion collapsed because it was council run and it's workforce bone idle ? Or am I missing something here?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:08 pm 
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Grendel wrote:
So carillion collapsed because it was council run and it's workforce bone idle ? Or am I missing something here?


It wasn't council run. Carillion were awarded the contract to deliver the council services. They failed but some seem to be blaming the councils. A bit like when PFI's were introduced by Labours Blair and Brown but now Labour are blaming the SNP up here in Scotland. The problem is some are that thick they are too lazy to research or don't want to because that particular narritive suits their agenda.

Carillion's collapse had nothing to do with the council.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:02 pm 
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Grendel wrote:
So carillion collapsed because it was council run and it's workforce bone idle ? Or am I missing something here?


Rhetorical question.


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