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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:19 pm 
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Hello everyone, I have been a long-time viewer of this site as a guest but have finally created an account and was wondering if any of you could give me any advice regarding my Camray 5 Oil Boiler; fully pumped sealed system.

In a nut-shell; our boiler currently has a 7day timer/programmer fitted to the front panel (the 'official' Boulter Programmer installed as per page 27 of https://www.buderus.co.uk/files/Camray_5_4065_6590_95135_Nov_01_Iss_4_Inst_Serv_.pdf (this was done prior to us moving into the house))

The programmer/timer work without issue, however we have no room thermostat installed. I would like to add a remote room thermostat to help regulate/monitor the temperature, however am slightly unsure how to proceed. I have purchased a 1 channel hive kit (happy to leave existing programmer to handle the HW as the demand for this never really changes in our house) but am a little unclear as to the best and safest way to attach to the system. Currently away from home on work so spending evenings reading up in preparation for my return home!

I have spent a while scouring the wiring diagrams and was wondering if it is OK (read: SAFE) to take a permanent live and neutral to hive from the 'top' LEN of the terminal block shown on page 35, and attach NC and NO from hive to 7 & 8 respectively? I could then leave the existing programmer for CH permanently 'off' and allow the hive system to take full control of the CH, leaving the HW to the programmer. Would I be best disconnecting the current CH on/off wires between old programmer and 7 & 8, or will it be OK with the hive taking control and completing the circuit?

Alternatively disconnect CH on from existing programmer, use as permanent live from Hive and then take netural and earth from terminal block on page 5. This way I would leave the existing programmer permanently ON and I would have an easy way of completely isolating hive system if ever required?

Another alternative - return 1 channel hive, get 2 channel hive, and try and fit to front of boiler in place of existing programmer?

Apologies if this has been asked before - I have trawled the internet and cannot find an answer that seems to cover this particular boiler.

Many thanks :hello2:

s2onius


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:30 am 
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managed to get a hold of an actual computer now so can add some images:

Current wiring setup:
Image

Hive wiring diagram:
Image

Thanks again for any help anyone can give

s2onius


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:30 pm 
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Just a guess.

But in the wiring diagram it shows s stats.
One is control stat
The other is ?xbxbx stat (I can't read it :oops: )

My question is do you have the 2nd stat and where is it located? (I will guess you have not got one)

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Take it easy, a forum is only a collection of opinions. Above, are mine.

Which is correct? Metre or Meter? Click the link. to find out more.

No such thing as "Thou shalt put this wire here, Thou shalt put that wire there" .............Take a picture BEFORE you do the job.

If gloom had a voice, it would be me. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:26 pm 
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Thanks for getting back to me. I think those 2 thermostats are the 'dials' which are on the front of the boiler (one for HW one for CH). I was hoping to set the CH 'dial' to 100% and then use the hive to control when the boiler actually fired.

TBH, I know I could do with upgrading the boiler itself, but we have a new baby (hence the desire to control heating more) and we just cannot afford a new one at the moment.

There are some wiring diagrams for adding external thermostats/programmers which I have seen in the manual, however these appear to be a complete replacement rather than my 'add-on' idea.

Image

These appear to add a direct link to the pump from the thermostat; but i was hoping to piggy back on the existing wiring as much as possible; especially as we may want to remove the hive in the future and revert to the original system.

Many thanks,

s2onius


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:40 am 
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I can see the diagram you added, but I can't read it :oops: That said, adding an additional stat is the way to go because if you "piggy back" onto the existing wiring you will not know which one is telling the heating / boiler to do what as they will be in parallel.

If (as you say) the boiler maker people have provided a wiring diagram of how to add a room stat it seems daft not to follow the information, since if you follow it to the letter it will work, any thing else is a guess and causes confusion.

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Take it easy, a forum is only a collection of opinions. Above, are mine.

Which is correct? Metre or Meter? Click the link. to find out more.

No such thing as "Thou shalt put this wire here, Thou shalt put that wire there" .............Take a picture BEFORE you do the job.

If gloom had a voice, it would be me. :mrgreen:

:idea1: How to post a picture on this forum Click here



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:55 am 
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In the main with a modern system the thermostat is not there to control room temperature, it is there to stop boiler cycling in the summer, the TRV's on every radiator control the temperature in each room.

With a hot air system yes the thermostat controls the house, but in the main we use hot water to take the heat into each room, with open plan houses then some times the thermostat controls down stairs and the TRV's just stop up stairs from over heating.

I like Hive and Nest as there is two way coms, so if coms is lost it closes down, however it does not matter what thermostat you use, they will not control the room temperature without some hysteresis, they only turn on and off, the TRV however slowly opens and closes so it maintains the temperature at a preset point, if the boiler is a modern condensate type then the boiler adjusts flame height to suit demand. So the wall mounted thermostat should only start to work as we get into summer, all it does is switch off boiler when we have a warm day.

This is why tradition puts thermostat in the hall, we can maintain hall at 19°C so once outside starts to warm up it switches off central heating, but 19°C would be too cold for a living room, as long as doors are closed, each room can be set to a different temperature. However either by using the lock shield valve or using a TRV in the hall as well, we need to stop hall getting warm quicker than rest of the house, I used a TRV but most use the lock shield valve.

I can understand fitting a wall thermostat to stop boiler cycling, but it will not keep room nice for new baby, they switch on/off where the TRV gradually opens and closes so they work better at maintaining the room temperature. If the TRV is not good enough, then change the head to a programmable head £22.51 screwfix price for a Pegler Terrier i-temp head, I used the MiHome £73 for two, but also needed to buy hub at £53 in hind sight I did not need to change temperature on the internet, so the cheaper one would have worked fine.



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:27 pm 
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Thank you both for getting back to me, especially the level of detail you have given!

I think i'll return the Hive and invest in a new TRV for the nursery; I think maybe i've been putting too much emphasis on a room thermostat in my head (having always had one in previous houses) and haven't been able to see the wood for the trees.

Thank you again; really appreciate the replies.
:salute:


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:35 am 
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If a room stat is not fitted the boiler will keep running even when all rooms are up to temperature. The only thing which then stops the boiler is the internal thermostat. This wastes gas, which is why a room stat is required by Building Regulations.


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