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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:47 pm 
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Hi All.

New user looking for some( probably a lot ) of help to design my workshop. The land I have available is on a slope of about 2.5ft over the 12ft span and drops 3ft sharply at midway along the 24 ft span. I can not get a digger to the land because of access restrictions.

I think the best option for me is to use 8x4 or 8x8 2.4m long railway sleepers as pillars buried in the ground to create a level platform to sit the workshop base on. Someone recommended that I position pillars 8ft along the 24ft span and then every 4ft along the 12ft span. I would then use 6x2 for floor joists.

I have attached a rough sketch showing spacing and direction of floor joists. I did no actually count the joists in the during so I may well need more. The drawing was more to show the general structure. I was wondering if the pillars need to be spaced at 4ft or could I get away with them every 6ft as this would save me time and money. Also would 8x8 be a lot better than 8x4 or maybe no difference? This is more a cost saving and time to dig bigger holes.

Attachment:
File comment: Current spacing a joist span arrangement
floorplan.png
floorplan.png [ 222.46 KiB | Viewed 726 times ]


I keep watching YouTube videos and everyone seems to be spacing the joists 16inches apart. I am thinking this is to enable 8x4 boards to be placed on the base and screwed down at the edge along joists.

I do not really know if 16inch spaced 6x2 joists in the configuration shown in the diagram would ensure enough strength for a workshop. Nothing too heavy in the workshop but want it to last. Dont want it bouncy when I am working on it.

I am then wondering once I have the base completed if its easier to buy a workshop off Ebay or to build one myself. The walls seem easy enough, but the roof might be quite a bit of work. Thinking if the basic workshop is delivered and erected for me then I just need to insulate the inside and plasterboard it. Thinking this way might save me a lot of time and might actually be cheaper.

Any thoughts/recommendations/links to example workshop builds would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Trev


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:16 pm 
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[quote="tsw"]I keep watching YouTube videos and everyone seems to be spacing the joists 16inches apart. I am thinking this is to enable 8x4 boards to be placed on the base and screwed down at the edge along joists.

I do not really know if 16inch spaced 6x2 joists in the configuration shown in the diagram would ensure enough strength for a workshop. Nothing too heavy in the workshop but want it to last. Dont want it bouncy when I am working on it.[quote]
As you say - there is method in the madness - in order to be able to install sheet materials quickly we joiners like to work in multiples of 16in. It makes for faster working if nothing else. 16in is also about the minimum distance between joists that you can comfortably drill (for wiring, etc). Greater than 16in and the floor will tend to be a bit bouncy between the joists, less than 16in and you need to get a divisor of 8 feet (96 inches), which leaves only 12in - that would be very costly and you'd struggle to run services through such tight joists, so.....

I presume that you'll be installing the plywood across the joists with staggered joints. I also assume that you will be going for structurally tested timber - minimum C16, better C24

In terms of joist span a 6 x 2 will take domestic loading over a span of about 10 to 12 feet on 16in centres. Put a suitable beam (steel or timber) at the half way mark supported by a masonry pier at either end and 7 x 2s (or for heavier loads 7 x 3) joists will carry a very substantial load, assuming that you will be going for something like 22mm structural spruce plywood

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:03 am 
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a point to keep in mind
you need to plan for both sheet sizes and plank sizes
sheets will tend to be metric or imperial with your measuring tape will tend to have marks at 400mm/16" increments for centers off joists not spacing
planking and timber will be slightly smaller with say 8ft 2440mm actually being 2400 or inch and 3/4 short 12 ft will be 2 1/2" inches short so iff your timbers are set up for say a sheet off ply your planks wont fit as economically without lots off planning and a few odd spacings for windows or doors

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:07 am 
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As a basic rule of thumb for every inch in thickness of joists plus 1 inch, you can span 2 feet.
For 1 plus 1 inch =2 inches thick you can span 2 foot max.
For 4 plus one inch =5 inches thick, you can span 8 foot max
It's always better to space it less.
Always use graded timber minimum c16. Get pressure treated if using outdoors.
Length of timber are sold in metric sizes, sheets are sold in imperial.
Always space joists at 16 inch intervals.
Make sure the jois t hangers you use can take the weight of the platform, building and contents in building plus all humans etc.
I would advise you to build the base and then decide if you want to purchase a full shed or the parts to make it yourself. Every shed I've assembled has been crap so it would be better to build one yourself.
Good luck



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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:26 am 
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Job and Knock wrote:

In terms of joist span a 6 x 2 will take domestic loading over a span of about 10 to 12 feet on 16in centres. Put a suitable beam (steel or timber) at the half way mark supported by a masonry pier at either end and 7 x 2s (or for heavier loads 7 x 3) joists will carry a very substantial load, assuming that you will be going for something like 22mm structural spruce plywood



Do you think I could get away with 18mm structural plywood? It seems to be a lot cheaper.

https://www.selcobw.com/structural-plywood-ce2-2440-x-1220-x-18mm

Trev


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:26 am 
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My one worry about building the whole workshop is expansion of the wood in wet conditions? If all the wood is treated then I suppose it is actually protected from getting wet and thus there shouldnt be any expansion?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:05 am 
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pressure treated timber help to stop it rotting not getting wet
if you use fence or shed treatment it will still get wet
i use ducks back and it works well and fully seals the surface

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:10 am 
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So do I have to work in some room for expansion between some parts of the structure?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:13 am 
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depends on construction its only the outside surface that should get wet

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:46 pm 
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Manc chippy wrote:
I would advise you to build the base and then decide if you want to purchase a full shed or the parts to make it yourself. Every shed I've assembled has been crap so it would be better to build one yourself.
Good luck


Well time is one consideration of mine and also messing it up. This is a workshop I am considering on Ebay. Any thoughts on it?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/24-x-12-19mm-Tanalised-Pressure-Treated-T-G-Apex-workshop-Shed-with-Canopy/142683638798?hash=item21389b8c0e:g:a28AAOSwX~dWjPay


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:10 pm 
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just be aware there are restrictions off height near a boundery off 2.5m
https://interactive.planningportal.co.u ... se/outside
https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/2 ... tbuildings

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:54 pm 
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big-all wrote:
just be aware there are restrictions off height near a boundery off 2.5m
https://interactive.planningportal.co.uk/detached-house/outside
https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/43/outbuildings


Thanks I am 2m from any boundary so am okay that way I think.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:14 pm 
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the boundary includes any part off the garden even the end :dunno:

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:45 pm 
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tsw wrote:
Do you think I could get away with 18mm structural plywood? It seems to be a lot cheaper.

It is, but as with everything it is down to loading, which only you know. 18mm makes for a rather bouncy floor in a domestic house - I doubt that it would be any better in a workshop. You my want to consider alternative suppliers for your plywood - it may be worth trawling around the recycled timber/building materials places to see if you can pick up, say water marked or visually imperfect hardwood plywood sheets, For example a mate of mine has recently picked-up 30 no. 8 x 4ft 18mm hardwood plywood sheets at £20 a sheet off Preloved. It took a 3.5 tonne hire van to bring it back home, and he still saved nearly £20 a sheet over buying off the local timber merchants. His workshop floor is therefore getting double thickness 18mm, glued and (ring) nailed on 150mm centres and with glued loose tongues in all the joints so it should be very solid indeed

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:56 am 
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So I have done a rough sketch of the new floor plan based on everyones helpful comments. Many thanks.

What do people think? Do I need to put another joist in at the 6ft point or with 7x2 joists will I be safe enough to run the 12ft stretch? The workshop will have stuff in it but I am not planning any heavy loads like a laithe. Well I say that now...maybe for the small amount of extra work I should just be sure and do the extra row of sleepers and joists

Attachment:
File comment: New suggested baseplan
Baseplan2.jpg
Baseplan2.jpg [ 62.28 KiB | Viewed 525 times ]


Trev


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