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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:56 am 
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Bosch have brought a new cordless planer onto the market in 12 volt form. Full 56mm width of cut, 2mm maximum depth of cut (optimum 1mm, though) and a brushless motor. Street price is looking to be under £180 bare (see here).



See here for the tool in use (sorry, in German):



In Germany they are apparently offering a set of the 12 volt planer, the 12 volt trimmer/router and 2 x 3Ah batteries (in the same size package as the older 1.5 and 2Ah batteries) in a brand new style of L-Boxx (sorry, German again):



Add those to the other tools in their 12 volt range (e.g. drills, circular saw, jigsaw, etc) and Bosch only nee a brushless SDS drill to make up the full set (at least so far as a joiner is concerned)

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:40 pm 
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i have the router coming next week :lol:
as brushless give out about twice the power for around a 40% greater consumption you need larger capacity batteries and newer to give any decent amount off use :lol:
my angle grinder goes through batteries quite quickly
and with my ryobi brushless belt sander a 4ah battery would run any tool for most off the day but cains a 4ah in an hour or so :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:29 pm 
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I am guessing the comb of lithium and brushless makes these smaller power tools possible. I had a nicd 14.4v planer and it was pretty pants really.
I love my 10.8v lithium tools though, not brushless but plenty powerful for my needs.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:39 pm 
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in general you can get roughly twice the useful ah out the battery typical dewalt 18 volt upper end used to be around the 420-450w now it seems to be around the 720-750w mark
and they are more efficient so nearing 3 times the power for perhaps 50% more battery usage

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:21 pm 
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More like 1.5 to 1.8 times the power output for an extra 40% of battery life, B-A

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:43 pm 
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ok i could be wrong as i often am lol
the way i understand it is you get 40% extra energy for free as they are more efficent
on top off that they are higher wattage thats how i think they get so much more power out off them so around 3 times the power available :dunno:
but could be wrong :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:53 pm 
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The 40% is really extra run time (fuel in the tank, to use your own analogy) mainly because the motors have less friction and lighter (no brushes) and the motor design itself is more efficient as a result of their servo motor-like control systems. My understanding is that for a given physical size of motor they are considerably more powerful, but as most manufacturers choose to incorporate physically smaller motors (example: look at the way Makita 18 volt impact drivers have shrunk over the last 10 to 12 years starting with the BTD141 then BTD/DTD145 now DTD170) in their tools I think it is difficult to actually pin a figure on it. What is true is that where motor power counts, on applications like circular saws the current generation of cordless brushless tools are noticeably more powerful than the [previous generation of brushed motor tools albeit still not as powerful as corded tools (and thus needing special ultra thin saw blades, etc)

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:26 pm 
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Brushless is more efficient due to less resistance, no mechanical drag, and the fact that the windings aren't in the armature. and also gives the designers the chance to make the motor operate better at different speeds by varying the "lead angle" of the switching. If you think about it the magnetic material of the poles can't instantly magnetise and demagnetise, (something called the hysteresis of the material) and so you want the poles switched "on and off" at an angle of rotation before they reach the point where you want maximum force.
A bit like an internal combustion engine having ignition advance.

(Skittles might have something to do with it as well. Or was that another thread? :mrgreen: )



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:39 pm 
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I’ve seen videos on another forum of the Bosch 10.8v router. I’ve got to say I was impressed although it was only doing hinge and latch recesses but the guy was doing them freehand and it made a very nice job.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:30 pm 
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the thing i like about the "look" off the bosch is the base is long and narrow meaning you can give it the support off a wide base and the vision and close up to off a small base
as most off my use off routing is moulding and rebating off often 21 or 43mm planed surfaces a bigger base is off no help as there is not the surface to rub against :lol:
indeed i often run a 7mm rebate in 12mm mdf thin side on so a narrower base will be easier to visualize and "feel" its flat and square and not badly angled :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:30 am 
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as an aside 10.8 as opposed to 18v is 3x3.6v cells as opposed to 5x 3.6v cells
i will try and compare the 18v 29000rpmnew ryobi against 13000 10.8v bosch :thumbright: and see how they compare

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:51 am 
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I have been looking at the 18v Makita cordless router recently, just curiosity as I have no use for one.

Lots of early reviews mention it is great for doing door work and small round overs etc, but also mention weight and balance being a problem.
Strikes me that the Makita is not fit for purpose, too heavy and awkward for fine work, lacking power for heavy work. The Bosch however looks to be much better suited to the jobs for which the Makita is recommended.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:53 am 
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to be fair most trades abuse there tools and cut corners because "they know best"
just make allowances and use it accordingly

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:47 pm 
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Rorschach wrote:
Lots of early reviews mention it is great for doing door work and small round overs etc, but also mention weight and balance being a problem.
Strikes me that the Makita is not fit for purpose, too heavy and awkward for fine work, lacking power for heavy work. The Bosch however looks to be much better suited to the jobs for which the Makita is recommended.

It will very much depend on what you are doing. By "door work" I suspect that they mean handling the many recesses installers have to cope with, e.g. hinge recesses, faceplate recesses, keep recesses, handle recesses, flush bolt recesses, recesses for floor box fittings, recesses for fire door closers,etc. It won't do the big heavy stuff like intumescent strip recessing, lock mortising (in any case probably better done with a drill and a Souber DBB) or drop seal recessing without a lot of repetitive cuts, which is hardly efficient. All the stuff it can do is potentially awkward (e.g. recessing a hinge into an already-installed door casing), fairly small section and personally I feel pretty much all better performed with a plunge router (oh, but there is a plunge base for the DRT50) rather than a straight trimmer. I've tried a DRT50 and it was indeed a bit top heavy (although the "gyro effect" when running the motor does compensate for this a bit). Where it scores is that it is still fairly light and the big plus - it runs on the same battery system that many joiners already use. And that's where the Bosch falls down to an extent. Nice though it is the battery system in the Bosch doesn't support any kind of circular saw with a decent depth of cut (the 18 volt saws are all 65 to 70mm doc), there isn't currently a 12 volt Bosch SDS drill, the jigsaw is underpowered for all but very thin stock, etc. I already carry two battery systems - Makita 18 volt for most stuff, deWalt 18 volt for their nailers - and like a lot of guys the thought of buying into yet another battery system just leaves me cold

Oh, and B-A the difference between 29,000 rpm and 13,000 rpm no load speed means that the Makita is starting out with above par speed and under load may go down as low as 14,000 rpm which is just about acceptable but which will mean slow cutting, whilst the Bosch starts out at the very lowest limit of what makes for acceptable cutting speed and will drop to half of that which means that to get acceptable finish cutting will be slow.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:08 pm 
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i am assuming because its geared down it will be far less likely to drop speed under load :dunno:
its coming tomorrow but if i dont have a collet to fit i will have to wait until i order one lol

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