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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:23 pm 
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Hi all,

I'd be grateful for some advice on how to wire in some new GU10 fittings. I bought these fire rated Minisun ones: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00GSPFK2O/ref=pe_3187911_185740111_TE_item

I will be removing the existing GU5.3 (MR16) fittings before starting. These fittings have a standard wiring: i.e. bulb to GU5.3 fitting to transformer to mains. The connection between the transformer and the mains uses wiring that's built into the transformer (i.e. two single wires, one each for live and neutral). The connection to the mains (which I assume is 2 core and earth) is done through a standard round junction box.

I'd like to know the best way to wire the mains to the new GU10 fittings once I've removed the transformer (and the GU5.3 fittings)

- Option 1: Is it safe to connect the mains directly into the choc box that is pre-attached to the GU10 fitting, i.e. removing the existing junction box and wiring the mains to the fitting? If I do this, the fittings are not class II, so I assume I would need to strip the mains wire sufficiently to be able to run the earth wire down to the metal body of the fitting. This doesn't seem very elegant to me, and I'm concerned that the external insulation will be gone and the choc box will only be gripping the wires themselves.

- Option 2: Would it be better to use Wago lighting connectors and a Wagobox? In which case, would I:

2A. Replace the choc box built into the GU10 fitting with a wagobox? I.e. by removing the existing junction box and then wiring both the mains and the bulb connector into the Wagobox. If so, would it matter that the wagobox was not fixed to the fitting, i.e. would this put stress on the connections? Or would it be better to attach the wagobox to the fitting, e.g. with a zip tie?

OR

2B. Use both a wagobox and the choc box on the GU10 fitting? I.e. by replacing the existing junction box with a wagobox, and then running a new wire between the wagobox and the choc box on the fitting. If so, what kind of wire would I need?

Thanks!!

Matt


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:43 pm 
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replace junction box with wagos unless the junction box is easily accessible. From there then 1mm twin and earth to each light using the connector blocks provided.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:05 pm 
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wine~o wrote:
replace junction box with wagos unless the junction box is easily accessible. From there then 1mm twin and earth to each light using the connector blocks provided.


Thanks for the advice! In which case I could pre-wire the new connector blocks with the twin and earth.

Why would I use twin and earth rather than 3 core flex? And is 1mm okay even if the existing mains cables are 1.5mm?

Thanks,

Matt



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:29 pm 
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You can use flex as long it's at least 1mm in hindsight you could use less thickness wire if you was to use led bulbs however i always fit 1mm as I know when led blows most people don't have spare and end up fitting an halogen.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:11 pm 
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The reason you use Twin and earth is because:

The answer is in the name, its flex (Flexible)
Twin and earth is for fixed items, such as wiring to ceiling roses, jbs etc
Flex is used for items that will be often moved.
Twin and earth is solid core, flex is multi stranded (which is why its flexible)

Also if you were to use flex it would have to be the same size as the supply cable (1mm minimum) but 1mm flex has all 3 cores insulated, (and its thicker insulation) so over all a flex is bigger than its counterpart Twin and earth

Since the fuse (protective device) is to protect the cable not what is on the end of it, it is for that reason that even if using LED lamps the cable must be the same size as the supply cable.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:57 pm 
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Hi all,

Thanks for the advice with the cable. But I’m still not clear what I should be using. Someone-else, I don’t quite understand your logic. Surely GU10 fittings are the kind of thing that will be move more frequently (or at least at first) when you’re getting them into the ceiling?

I already have some 0.75 mm flex and wouldn’t make the mistake of putting a halogen in. But I won’t use it if it’s dangerous / against regs.

If I do end up using twin and earth then I don’t know how I can connect that to the blocks on the light fittings safely, as I’ll have to strip the exterior insulation for the earth wire.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:15 pm 
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I’ve been reading about cable thickness and, since it’s on a 6 amp mcb, I think I’m fine to use 1 mm. 0.75 mm is rated at 6 amps so that might be cutting it too fine. I still don’t know whether to pick t&e or flex though!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:32 am 
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Use twin and earth.

When you install twin and earth, yes you move it a bit, but once its in you never move it again.

Where as using an electric lawn mower for example (One with a flex) how often will the flex get moved in its life time? thousands, you walk up and down, side to side etc, then you coil up its lead, you couldn't do all that if it was twin and earth. (It would snap after a sometime any way)

When you install it on lights such as you have yes you strip it further than required to get the earth core, but then (ideally) you cut the surplus off before you connect it. (not forgetting to use earth sleeving.)

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Which is correct? Metre or Meter? Click the link. to find out more.

No such thing as "Thou shalt put this wire here, Thou shalt put that wire there" .............Take a picture BEFORE you do the job.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:17 am 
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Hi someone-else,

Okay, thanks for the advice. And to be clear, we’re talking about the connection between the JB and the light fitting?

I can see that you don’t move the fittings that often, so why it would be fine to use twin and earth, but I still don’t understand what the advantage is of using twin and earth? The Wago light connectors assume there is flexible cable on the lighting side, and use levers rather than push in connectors on that side.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:37 pm 
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Matteo2000 wrote:
I still don’t understand what the advantage is of using twin and earth?


someone-else wrote:
Also if you were to use flex it would have to be the same size as the supply cable (1mm minimum) but 1mm flex has all 3 cores insulated, (and its thicker insulation) so over all a flex is bigger than its counterpart Twin and earth

Since the fuse (protective device) is to protect the cable not what is on the end of it, it is for that reason that even if using LED lamps the cable must be the same size as the supply cable.


Matteo2000 wrote:
The Wago light connectors assume there is flexible cable on the lighting side, and use levers rather than push in connectors on that side.


Wago's don't assume anything.
The fact is the wago's with levers are easier to use / re use.

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Take it easy, a forum is only a collection of opinions. Above, are mine.

Which is correct? Metre or Meter? Click the link. to find out more.

No such thing as "Thou shalt put this wire here, Thou shalt put that wire there" .............Take a picture BEFORE you do the job.

If gloom had a voice, it would be me. :mrgreen:

:idea1: How to post a picture on this forum Click here



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