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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:38 am 
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ok guys.

Im shortly going to be removing some boarding out from the side and top of these stairs (in the picture is the stud wall on the landing at the top of the stairs... - end terrace property)

The idea is to open the top of the stairs up and I will be installing a newel post and some spindles.

Image


Im struggling to find the best fixing method to use for the newel post here as a past stair kit I fitted was complete with all fixings and I cant find any seperate fix kits?.

What do you think is the best hardware to use here please? (that I can get quickly!) The newel is from screwfix as are the 41mm spindles however unfortunately they do not sell any newel fixing pins or bracket kits...

As for the spindles, Im sure I got a spindle fixing kit in the past with a stairs kit...?
I realise I could just screw them in but am looking for other suggestions....

Thanks in advance


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:08 am 
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Think what you might be looking for is a newel post fixing bolt from Wicks
that screws into the floor joist

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 11:51 am 
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To fit your newel post you will have to take up some floor boards and anchor the newel to a joist. If the newel will land between the joists fit some trimmer joists to anchor the newel. Fix with 4" screws and plenty of Glue. Or if the newel is at the side of 1 joist notch out the newel over the joist. See the picture.

You will need a baserail to fit the spindles into. This comes with fillet strip that has to be cut to the length of your spindle spacings. Have a look at http://www.ukstairparts.co.uk/handrail.htm for examples of baserails and handrails. Remeber the spindles should be no more than 80mm apart internal measurement.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:15 pm 
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joiner_uk wrote:
To fit your newel post you will have to take up some floor boards and anchor the newel to a joist. If the newel will land between the joists fit some trimmer joists to anchor the newel. Fix with 4" screws and plenty of Glue. Or if the newel is at the side of 1 joist notch out the newel over the joist. See the picture.

You will need a baserail to fit the spindles into. This comes with fillet strip that has to be cut to the length of your spindle spacings. Have a look at http://www.ukstairparts.co.uk/handrail.htm for examples of baserails and handrails. Remeber the spindles should be no more than 80mm apart internal measurement.


Thanks mate :-) thats superb..and just what I was after

Thanks also tryanything for the Wickes tip.

Has anyone ordered from ukstairparts? they seem to have exactly what I need but I need to know I can get it all by Thursday am latest!

Also, joiner uk, what is the best way to fasten the new bannister rail to the wall where it meets it at the end of the landing?

and what fixing method would you prefer if using trimmers between joists?As in how would you affix the newel to the trimmers? I was thinking I could wedge it with trimmers on all four sides and then 4" screws and glue from trimmers to the newel in the centre?

Surely this would be stronger than a central screw in stud a la wickes type fastener?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 1:55 pm 
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darkhorse wrote:
Has anyone ordered from ukstairparts? they seem to have exactly what I need but I need to know I can get it all by Thursday am latest!

Not used them before just used there website to display what you needed.

darkhorse wrote:
Also, joiner uk, what is the best way to fasten the new hand rail to the wall where it meets it at the end of the landing?

You need to fix a half newel to the wall. The banister rail can be fixed as follows:
1. Mortice & Tenon
2. Butt joint with screws
3. Angle bracket
You can see a half newel here http://www.coffmanstairs.com/choices/choices8.htm

darkhorse wrote:
and what fixing method would you prefer if using trimmers between joists?As in how would you affix the newel to the trimmers? I was thinking I could wedge it with trimmers on all four sides and then 4" screws and glue from trimmers to the newel in the centre?

Use 4" screws to fix your newel as the trimmers will be 2" wide timbers.
Screw through the trimmers into the newel. If you do it as per my drawing with 2 trimmers this will be adequate. Or the newel may end up next to the joist which will be even better. Just get plenty of glue in there and fix the screws well. Try to set the newel as far down the joist as you can. Your newel post will need to be minimum 1300mm in length.

What size newel have you got?

This is the best way to fit a newel post. :thumbright:

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 5:45 pm 
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Thanks mate.The newel is 1500mm long
I have bought a newel fixing post from wickes in case the newel is right above the joist..
Hopefully it wont be and I can use trimmers and return the fixer to Wickes seeing as it cost £12 :lol:


Re fixing the bannister rail,

I have bought a Richard Burbidge? pine 41mm chunky rail and also a 41mm bottom rail.
The spindles are from screwfix and are 41mm....The bottom rail has a groove cut out to allow the spindles to sit in it...then I was going to screw it in place top and bottom at angles from both sides (countersink the screws) and fill the heads at the end??

how does that sound :scratch:

Also, Im guessing the best method is to fit the newel and half newel..then mount the bannister rail level between the two...and then cut and fit the spindles to account for any discrepencies in the floor height etc?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 6:57 pm 
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[quote="darkhorse"]The bottom rail has a groove cut out to allow the spindles to sit in it...then I was going to screw it in place top and bottom at angles from both sides (countersink the screws) and fill the heads at the end??[quote]

Not quite sure what you mean!

I take it the spindles are to fitted on the landing horizontal. Not up the side of the stairs?

1.First fit your newel posts
2.Fit the base rails. Screw the base rails down.
3.Work out the spacings for your spindles, mark them on the baserail.
4.Fit the handrail. Use 2 spindles either end to make the height 900mm.
5.Fit the spindles with fillets/spacers (use evo stick grip fill to glue the fillets in place)

If you get stuck post up some pics as you do the work :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:25 pm 
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joiner_uk wrote:
darkhorse wrote:
The bottom rail has a groove cut out to allow the spindles to sit in it...then I was going to screw it in place top and bottom at angles from both sides (countersink the screws) and fill the heads at the end??
Quote:

Not quite sure what you mean!

I take it the spindles are to fitted on the landing horizontal. Not up the side of the stairs?

1.First fit your newel posts
2.Fit the base rails. Screw the base rails down.
3.Work out the spacings for your spindles, mark them on the baserail.
4.Fit the handrail. Use 2 spindles either end to make the height 900mm.
5.Fit the spindles with fillets/spacers (use evo stick grip fill to glue the fillets in place)

If you get stuck post up some pics as you do the work :wink:


Thanks again mate :-)

Maybe I didnt explain my plan too well!

It is I think basically like your option 2!!

Butt joint with screws

but instead of a flush butt joint the spindle will be slightly recessed into both the bottom rail and the top rail due to the rail having a 41mm rebate running down the centre of it..

Does that make any sense?! :thumbright:

Also, does anyone know if there is a 'standard' height for a newel post or horizontal bannister rail?
This rail is to go horizontally on the landing and is only a 1.5 metre span.



Can you clarify what stage to do this at please?
Do you mean to get the spindles tight in to the rails? and then screw thm in from there?
eg// 2./ butt joint with screws

Quote:
Fit the spindles with fillets/spacers (use evo stick grip fill to glue the fillets in place)


Or have I gone off track here>???!!! :lol:

cheers


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:42 pm 
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The spindles fit into the rebate on the hand rail and base rail.
You should have some fillet strip 41mm wide approx 8mm deep that fits into the rebate on the hand rail and base rail.

This fillet strip is then cut to exact same lengths approx 80mm to space each spindle and fill in the rebate leaving a nice neat finish. These spacers hold your spindles in place inside the rebates.

Do you have the fillet strip?

The hand rail should be set at 900-950mm high so the newel will be set at approx 1000-1100mm high depending on the style of your newel

Found this that explains fiiting stair parts a bit more http://www.richardburbidge.co.uk/PDF/Stairfit.pdf

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 1:05 am 
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joiner_uk wrote:
The spindles fit into the rebate on the hand rail and base rail.
You should have some fillet strip 41mm wide approx 8mm deep that fits into the rebate on the hand rail and base rail.

This fillet strip is then cut to exact same lengths approx 80mm to space each spindle and fill in the rebate leaving a nice neat finish. These spacers hold your spindles in place inside the rebates.

Do you have the fillet strip?

The hand rail should be set at 900-950mm high so the newel will be set at approx 1000-1100mm high depending on the style of your newel

Found this that explains fiiting stair parts a bit more http://www.richardburbidge.co.uk/PDF/Stairfit.pdf


Got it!!

thanks mate.
Yes, the rails do have the fillet stops.
I havent taken them out of the shrink wrap but they are in there allright!
I cant believe thats all that is used to fasten the spindles in...:lol:
makes sense totally now.

I will post up some pics during if I have any issues if thats ok :wink:

Thanks again and for the pdf file which looks great :thumbright:


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:15 pm 
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Almost forgot...

Whats the best way to fix the half newel to the bannister rail?
It doesnt look deep enough for a bolt head / screw fastener.

I was going to screw the half newel to the wall but the only way I can think of is to butt joint the two and use either and angle bracket or a couple of countersunk screws under it and up into the half newel...

Any other ideas welcomed :-) :thumbright:


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:32 pm 
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Use any of the following methods:

1. Mortice & Tenon
2. Butt joint with screws
3. Angle bracket

The half newel should be 2" thick so you got plenty to screw into

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 3:01 pm 
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joiner_uk wrote:
Use any of the following methods:

1. Mortice & Tenon
2. Butt joint with screws
3. Angle bracket

The half newel should be 2" thick so you got plenty to screw into



ok,cheers


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:10 pm 
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THansk joiner_uk

used some of your tips and the job went really well and we got a great result at the end.

The newel location had a joist running right behind it so I notched the Newel as per your suggestion and the also put a couple of trimmers between the joist on either side of the Newel post and put 4" screws through from all sides.

It is so solidly in there I think the newel post would snap before it would move :lol:

Understood the fillets application as soon as I opened the box up with the base raila nd hand rail in....a neat idea it is too :-)
thanks again mate


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:47 pm 
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Hi darkhorse, thanks for your reply and it sounds like the job went well :thumbright:

Maybe you could post a pic of your handy work.

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