DIY Forum

 

Ultimate Handyman Ultimate Handyman Ultimate Handyman Ultimate HandymanUltimate Handyman on Pinterest

 

DIY Forum/Home improvement advice forum

 

 

A-Z CONTENTS | DISCLAIMER | DIY VIDEO | HOME | SAFETY FIRST | FORUM RULES

It is currently Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:23 pm


Time zone: Europe/London [ DST ]




 

 


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 60 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:14 am 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:34 pm
Posts: 128
Location: Cheshire
Has thanked: 169 times
Been thanked: 1 times
Could I use an old (sturdy) dining table as a cutting table? Perhaps with a frame on top like the one you suggested?

In terms of the skirting, our extension has only recently been finished and there's no skirting along those walls at all. I was thinking of not putting any skirting up at all where the units are going to cover considering that it is not going to be visible anyway. The rest of the wall will have skirting which will terminate where the plinth starts.

Clear on the plinth and the front MDF fascia. :thumbright:

I was conscious of the difference in depth between the two units but it doesnt bother me because the shelves will be filled with all sorts of books, and objects of various sizes and shapes. They will also be painted a dark grey. The hallway itself will be rather dark (in terms of colour scheme) and there will be quite a bit of light and shadow play at different points of it.


Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare on DiggShare on DeliciousShare on Google+
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:53 am 
Offline
Pro Carpenter
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:11 pm
Posts: 20250
Location: redhill surrey an auld reekie laddie
Has thanked: 662 times
Been thanked: 1896 times
i actually use a purpose made garden table 1500x 900mm i use normally a say 5 or12mm baton under the track area to support the board with the track saw set 2mm greater than material thickness
in my design no sacraficial frame as its a table although its 90% used for sheet cutting but is a garden table
now i only ever use the track saw for sheet as i have other saws for planks but in general iff you have planks to cut you need a dead flat area as any angle from wrongly supported planks can transfer into a angle or twist on a cut

_________________
we are all ------------------still learning



For this message the author big-all has received gratitude : mahoak
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:16 am 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:34 pm
Posts: 128
Location: Cheshire
Has thanked: 169 times
Been thanked: 1 times
big-all, I think I found the perfect video showing what I need for a cutting platform. It pretty much combines everything that you and J&K have been saying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SE8Cjfb7VY8

It's as if this guy is doing exactly what I am planning to do. He has even got same toolboxes as me.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:35 am 
Offline
Pro Carpenter
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:11 pm
Posts: 20250
Location: redhill surrey an auld reekie laddie
Has thanked: 662 times
Been thanked: 1896 times
watched the video
to be honest he made hard work off it :lol:
on sheet material you never need a clamp as you not only have the "grip " off the track you also have the spring pressure on top off the machine weight holding the track in place when you push down
now i personally would use a pull saw to cut to length but off course you can use other methods but not always the easiest or best solution
i personally think laying boards on top off each others is open to inaccuracies and mistakes if accuracy is important :dunno:
to be honest it would be getting used to another operating method that may be easy or a complete nightmare but as said but better to adapt your operations to the tools you have to hand

_________________
we are all ------------------still learning


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:54 am 
Offline
Old School Chippie
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:27 pm
Posts: 5453
Location: Lancashire
Has thanked: 645 times
Been thanked: 1338 times
mahoak wrote:
Could I use an old (sturdy) dining table as a cutting table? Perhaps with a frame on top like the one you suggested?

Yes. Why not?

Please bear with me - as this is a public forum I'm (inevitably?) going to try and point out some of the gotchas which people are potentially going to come up across as well as more specific stuff. So if you've seen this stuff before please cut me just a little slack :thumbright:

The next points I was going to raise was about the effect of joining materials in terms of the visual effect of different thicknesses. As I said before your design lends itself to modular construction. Indeed with the weight in it I can actually see no other feasible approach. But where units butt up to each other the doubling up of the "gable end" (upright) components may seem a little heavy visually:
Attachment:
Demonstration Bookcase 001_03.JPG
Demonstration Bookcase 001_03.JPG [ 68.87 KiB | Viewed 181 times ]

and there's also the issue of the joints being visible and difficult to finish. The simplest way to cover the joints is to make the gable ends about 12mm narrower than the top and bottom and to apply a 12mm thick capping (what you referred to as a "face frame" earlier), thus:
Attachment:
Demonstration Bookcase 001_04a.JPG
Demonstration Bookcase 001_04a.JPG [ 36.85 KiB | Viewed 181 times ]

Attachment:
Demonstration Bookcase 001_04b.JPG
Demonstration Bookcase 001_04b.JPG [ 41.29 KiB | Viewed 181 times ]

Attachment:
Demonstration Bookcase 001_04c.JPG
Demonstration Bookcase 001_04c.JPG [ 70.14 KiB | Viewed 181 times ]

This may not look so bad here, but where you have intermediate upright panels, as in your design, it may be visually jarring to have the two different width uprights. When you manage to get it all drawn out in SketchUp it will become apparent. I'll try to find time tomorrow to do a better worked example (from your drawings)

BTW the same set-back approach can be adapted to handle the outer gable end scribe strips, although in the case of those I almost always apply an extra piece of softwood to the outsides of the carcasses to give extra support and glueing area:
Attachment:
Demonstration Bookcase 001_04d.JPG
Demonstration Bookcase 001_04d.JPG [ 56.44 KiB | Viewed 181 times ]

The yellow strip is the softwood support, about 10 to 12mm and sawn off the edge bof a 3 x 2 PAR piece of softwood. The Red piece is 12mm MDF and is only applied after the cabinet has been fixed in place. Because it may need to be scribed to the wall I tend to make them oversize (in width) and scribe on site. If your walls are really bad it is far easier to scribe 12mm stock than 18mm stuff whilst 12mm is still fairly rigid - thinner stuff just won't hack it in this sort of place (so a happy medium)

big-all wrote:
watched the video
to be honest he made hard work off it :lol:
on sheet material you never need a clamp as you not only have the "grip " off the track you also have the spring pressure on top off the machine weight holding the track in place when you push down

B-A is right on that - in nigh on 20 years of using track saws I've rarely had to resort to using the clamps. The rubber strips do the work for you on most materials (the stuff where clamps are advisable are materials like Perstorp and Corian - not MDF or plywood). At the beginning everyone think that they need clamps - so Festool, Makita, et all sell you a set. You use them a few times before you realise they aren't necessary. Then you put them in the box. And there they stay.... His support table is good, though. Handy to have one which folds down. I tend not to bother because mine are made from gash/offcut timber, often don't get protected and so get cut to bits, and they get tossed in the skip at the end of a job because they are too big to get in my van

big-all wrote:
now i personally would use a pull saw to cut to length but off course you can use other methods but not always the easiest or best solution

If the Festool is out and you have a short enough rail (even the 1400 can seem a tad cumbersome at times) then a big combi square to set-out and the Fes/rail will do the job quickly. No need to get any of the other toys out

I do agree that using finish materials to cut in that way is a bit risky, so I don't do it.

_________________
"The person who never made a mistake, never made anything" - Albert Einstein

"I too will something make, And joy in the making" - Robert Bridges, 1844~1930


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:20 pm 
Offline
Old School Chippie
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:27 pm
Posts: 5453
Location: Lancashire
Has thanked: 645 times
Been thanked: 1338 times
Did a full SketchUp drawing complete with 36mm cappings and 38mm scribe strips. OK, got the thickness of the cappings wrong (18mm should be 12mm) and I did have to play around a bit with the general positioning of the shelves because I had issues wiyth the shelves of the middle upper unit not lining through visually (which I found a little disturbing), but overall I don't think it's bad. It's getting there. One change I would make is to add a 36/38mm capping overhanging the bottom edges to balance up the design a bit. I still think it would look better if all the shelf ends were the same width (i.e. 18 or 25mm) but as it stands I think it's getting there. The front view shows what I was trying to convey about component widths:
Attachment:
Book Case Main Structure 001_01.JPG
Book Case Main Structure 001_01.JPG [ 74.68 KiB | Viewed 168 times ]

Attachment:
Book Case Main Structure 001_03.JPG
Book Case Main Structure 001_03.JPG [ 44.65 KiB | Viewed 167 times ]

Attachment:
Book Case Main Structure 001_02.JPG
Book Case Main Structure 001_02.JPG [ 61.17 KiB | Viewed 167 times ]

Attachment:
Book Case Main Structure 001_04.JPG
Book Case Main Structure 001_04.JPG [ 54.88 KiB | Viewed 166 times ]


Construction: As this is a painted MDF structure I'm more than ever convinced that attempting to do this with housed joints would be very risky Even more now I think the consistency required is going to be difficult to achieve in a "site" environment, so I'd really go for a construction where I use a small number or dowels, biscuits or Dominos to locate the components then drilled, countersunk and screwed the individual carcasses together, filling the screw head holes with 2-pack filler and sanding back. Certainly in terms of cost and time that would be hard to beat and can require minimal equipment.

Note: The mitred ends on the scribe strips are probably a bit OTT (not to mention awkward to install :roll: ) and I'd definitely make the two upright scribe pieces as one piece items, not split in two as in the SU drawing. I also omitted the plinth for speed - there's a few hours in this and, well, you know..... :wink:

_________________
"The person who never made a mistake, never made anything" - Albert Einstein

"I too will something make, And joy in the making" - Robert Bridges, 1844~1930


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:13 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:34 pm
Posts: 128
Location: Cheshire
Has thanked: 169 times
Been thanked: 1 times
J&K, thank you very much indeed. That looks tons better than my initial feeble attempt on SketchUp.

Job and Knock wrote:
I still think it would look better if all the shelf ends were the same width (i.e. 18 or 25mm) but as it stands I think it's getting there.


I have been thinking about the uniform width of the shelf ends and here is what I have thought so far. It's probably wrong considering my lack of knowledge but I thought to throw the ideas in just to check. So... the first thing I need to check is whether I need to brace the horizontal shelves. The reason I ask is because a lot of them are going to be quite long and I'm using thin 12mm MDF. For example the bottom horizontal shelf in the middle upper unit will be 1300mm long. Like mike10 has done in his project that he posted in page 1. My thinking is that a horizontal brace (25mm thick) at the front under each shelf would add support but also add width to the shelves.

So the front of the horizontal shelves would be 12mm+25mm=37mm which can be covered quite nicely by a 40mm capping. Actually the 40mm capping can extend throughout the whole structure. It would add visual thickness which I think would go quite nice in a structure of this size.
Now, this raises 2 questions:
1: what about the vertical coponents width? So I thought that whilst the horizontal shelves can be made out of 12mm mdf the vertical ones can be made out of 25mm mdf. Ok, 40mm capping means that there would be a"lip" on the vertical shelves but that's fine with me.
2: what about the areas where the top 3 structures join together? So I thought that the 2 sides of the middle upper unit can be made with 25mm mdf whereas the sides of the two outer units can be made out of 12mm mdf. This would mean that when they are put together next to each other they will create a 37mm widelong vertical line which again would be perfectly covered by the capping.

Does this make sense? Is it doable?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:25 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:34 pm
Posts: 128
Location: Cheshire
Has thanked: 169 times
Been thanked: 1 times
The other question I have is in respect to the material used. Is my only choice mdf?

Considering that the dimensions for any one piece would not be bigger that 35cm x 145cm would I not be able to source some wood planks of those dimensions? Something like softwood or pine? I understand tht wood may be more expensive but we intend to grow old in this house so happy to pay a bit more (considering I would be saving by doing this myself as well).


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:26 pm 
Offline
Old School Chippie
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:27 pm
Posts: 5453
Location: Lancashire
Has thanked: 645 times
Been thanked: 1338 times
mahoak wrote:
... the first thing I need to check is whether I need to brace the horizontal shelves. The reason I ask is because a lot of them are going to be quite long and I'm using thin 12mm MDF. For example the bottom horizontal shelf in the middle upper unit will be 1300mm long. Like mike10 has done in his project that he posted in page 1. My thinking is that a horizontal brace (25mm thick) at the front under each shelf would add support but also add width to the shelves.

well, if you still want to go down the track of using housing joints you're housings still need to be will be about 6mm deep - or half the thickness of the components - which for a large project and a first major furniture project (?) is simply asking for trouble. Housings do weaken the structure of the sheet material so you have to compensate for that weakness by making your joints really strong - if you want it to look sleek (i.e. no cleats or battens) that translates to using screws or nails to support the joints and lots of glue and clamps - because you can't readily use dowels, biscuits or Dominos in conjunction with housings (and in any case those three techniques are all designed to, in effect, replace housings). Edge drilling, countersinking and screwing 12mm material is far more likely to result in obvious bulging around the screw that it would be with 18mm or thicker stuff. If you go the other way and forget the housings but instead use dowels, biscuits, carcass screws or Dominos in 12mm you still have the problem that it will be difficult to get a strong enough joint in the 12mm (tolerances and the amount of material surrounding the joint medium are the issues) - and if/when you do get the joints you'll find that 12mm is actually too weak to carry a decent weight the weight of books without flexing (do your own calcs by using the Sagulator to check this). Having reduced the strength by using a material which is really too thin for the strength you need in a unit of this size you are than looking to replace the strength by adding solid wood lipping at the front, which to be honest sound a bit, well Irish (sorry, granny!). Just so you are aware, lipping isn't just a case of sticking a piece of material underneath the shelf (which would give you a very obvious line in the paint finish regardless of what you do) - you really need to fix the lipping to the front edge of the shelf and from long experience the thinner the shelf material the more awkward it is to do and it never quite ends up flat at the join, so a sharp block plane and some sanding will be called for. TBH you appear to be going round in circles with this - why not just make the unit up from a single, more appropriate material in the first place (and is why I did my drawings based on the use of 18mm). If thin and strong is where you want to go you'd be better off looking at acrylics glued together with Tensol 70, but that won't come cheap

mahoak wrote:
1: what about the vertical coponents width? So I thought that whilst the horizontal shelves can be made out of 12mm mdf the vertical ones can be made out of 25mm mdf. Ok, 40mm capping means that there would be a"lip" on the vertical shelves but that's fine with me.

You seem to be determined to make something which is unable to carry any amount of load. 12mm is too thin for the shelves - you'd be better, in structural terms, to consider either all elements in the same thickness or the horizontal ones thicker or the horizontal elements in a different material such as 6 or 8mm acrylic (although that would require a somewhat different design)

mahoak wrote:
2: what about the areas where the top 3 structures join together? So I thought that the 2 sides of the middle upper unit can be made with 25mm mdf whereas the sides of the two outer units can be made out of 12mm mdf. This would mean that when they are put together next to each other they will create a 37mm widelong vertical line which again would be perfectly covered by the capping.

In design terms if you want to stick with a solid material such as MDF you'd be better considering something like 18mm MDF for all components, with maybe the interior gable ends at 9mm each (so you'd get 9mm + 9mm when assembled which could be set back a bit and capped to give the same 18mm width as the "whole" uprights). An alternative might be to up the 18mm to 25mm and the 9mm to 12mm on vertical elements but use 18mm materials for the horizontal elements to provide a bit of contract. The difficulty with that, I feel, is that the upper shelf design n the two outer units (the"spiral" design) probably wouldn't work well visually with two different thicknesses

In practical terms you also need to consider the physical weight of the units you are going to have to make, manhandle and install. Based on the fact that a sheet (2440 x 1220mm) of 18mm MDF weighs in at 50kg. and that the fixings, paint, etc will add a little to that your upper units will weigh in at around 64kg each (assuming all 18mm stock and a one-piece 12mm back). Go to 25mm all through, again with a 12mm back and that jumps to 84.5kg approx. The middle one is a tad heavier at 69.9kg (18mm with a 12mm back) or 92.7kg in 25mm with a 12mm back. go to 12mm and the weight drops, but the problem then is that the structure is far weaker and you risk the unit pulling itself apart when being man-handled into place. Also worth noting that your lower units are going to need to carry that weight (200kg in 18/12mm + the book load) and that 12m will be neither strong enough to do that nor thick enough to fix doors to. BTW a 12mm back glued and stapled to the backs of the uprights and shelves (with care) adds considerable rigidity - even a 6mm one will do that (and at a weight saving of 6kg per upper module, too). My background (interior fit-out) means that I have been involved in manhandling and installing bar units and point of sales desks weighing in at up to and over half a tonne - but that's with a team of six, eight or even more blokes who have lots of experience in handling those sorts of weights. When you are working on your own or even with one other things like this do become an issue and need to be taken into consideration

mahoak wrote:
Does this make sense? Is it doable?

It makes sense, but it isn't practical in my opinion for the reasons stated. I like the general design you've come up with, however IMHO it doesn't lend itself at all well to overhanging face frames or lippings which are more of a throwback to more staid, traditional (old-fashioned) designs and seemingly at odds with the modern clean look I thought you were after

_________________
"The person who never made a mistake, never made anything" - Albert Einstein

"I too will something make, And joy in the making" - Robert Bridges, 1844~1930


Last edited by Job and Knock on Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.


For this message the author Job and Knock has received gratitude : mahoak
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:11 pm 
Offline
Old School Chippie
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:27 pm
Posts: 5453
Location: Lancashire
Has thanked: 645 times
Been thanked: 1338 times
mahoak wrote:
The other question I have is in respect to the material used. Is my only choice mdf?

There are alternatives (see below) but it all takes extra work, extra knowledge and a lot more tools so I'd not really advise in favour on what is already a big project for a relative noob to bring in (sorry if you aren't, but that's the impression I've gained, rightly or wrongly)

mahoak wrote:
Considering that the dimensions for any one piece would not be bigger that 35cm x 145cm would I not be able to source some wood planks of those dimensions? Something like softwood or pine?

Pine is softwood, or rather it is a softwood....... I think what you may have meant is what joiners here refer to as redwood (or more specifically joinery grade redwood, FAS or Firsts and Seconds, Swedish redwood, or in terms of species Scots pine aka Pinus sylvestris and associated species). What you absolutely don't want is Russian, Finnish or other redwood, which is often very knotty, or the dreaded fast grown white fir wood sold by B&Q, et al (an referred to by joiners everywhere as banana pine). If you think that you can replace MDF by pine board you are going to hit several problems with this. Firstly you won't easily source that sort of planking at the 350mm or so wide your project requires. Secondly, if you can get it in that sort of width it will invariably be a heart cut (i.e. one through the centre of the log) which is very likely to move or warp. You can, however source pineboard which is made by laminating up narrower staves of pine to make wider boards. It isn't cheap and to my admittedly jaundiced eye it's redolent of cheapo pine bedroom furniture. The target market for this is outfits cranking out pine furniture sets using CNC routers, so it's not something every timber merchant will carry. Thirdly it generally comes only in 18, 22 and 25mm thicknesses.

The other issue is environment. If your house is centrally heated you will need to bring the timber (ideally into the room where it will eventually reside), stick it and let it acclimatise for a week or two before to cut it. In that time some of it will warp and you'll lose it, so an additional 15 to 20% waste over what you think you'll need is advisable.

When you make it you'll have the issue of how you are going to joint the pieces together. Ideally you want the fastenings to be as inconspicuous as possible - ideally completely hidden. Nails are out and screws will need to be carefully sunk and pelleted afterwards (not easy with softwoods) because you won't want to see any filler under a clear lacquer finish. KD (knock-down, e.g. cam and peg, Scan bolts, etc) fixings could be used, but then you'll be copying IKEA and why spend a lot of money making something which looks like it came out of an IKEA shop? Go the more professional way of dowels, biscuits or Dominos and you'll need sash cramps or F-cramps, even with cauls that will be approximately 14 to 16 at about 1.5 metre capacity. And your design will need to take into account that real wood moves with the seasons. So it takes a lot more thought than using man-made boards, not to mention a lot more tools (although that's not a bad thing :roll: - it's just that for a first major project it's perhaps going one or two steps too far?)

If you want to have a look at sympathetic modern designs in pine I'd throughly recommend Franz Karg's book, "Modern Cabinetmaking in Solid Wood" (Bell & Hymann) which shows some excellent pieces made in solid pine by real craftsmen. I'll warn you, though, that the techniques used in the pieces in that book require a lot more equipment than a rail saw and a router to achieve - as well as considerably more experience. It is addictive stuff, though, and may be a positive influence - or a complete turn-off. Here are two examples from the book:

Attachment:
Franz Karg 001_01.jpg
Franz Karg 001_01.jpg [ 140.98 KiB | Viewed 139 times ]

Attachment:
Franz Karg 001_04.jpg
Franz Karg 001_04.jpg [ 72.01 KiB | Viewed 139 times ]


Hopefuly I'm not coming across too negatively, but I am attempting to help you with a project whih is realitically within your grasp. We've covered a fair bit of ground so far and it's good that you asking (so many) questions.

_________________
"The person who never made a mistake, never made anything" - Albert Einstein

"I too will something make, And joy in the making" - Robert Bridges, 1844~1930



For this message the author Job and Knock has received gratitude : mahoak
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:45 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:34 pm
Posts: 128
Location: Cheshire
Has thanked: 169 times
Been thanked: 1 times
j&k apologies, I misunderstood your earlier post and thought you were talking about using 12mm mdf for the shelves. Having re-read it I realised my mistake and that you were actually talking about the thickness of the capping instead. Sorry :oops: :oops:

You are correct in your impression that I am a noob in this area. This is my first major project.

I am clear regarding the challenges that wood would present for me so I best stay away from that option.

So, to clarify, the best choice for me at this point is 18mm MDF. In terms of fixing it together the best method would be few dowels and screws. And 18mm thick MDF would not need any extra support because it will not sag despite some of the shelves being up to 1300mm long.

Those pictures from the Franz Karg book look stunning so I will buy the book simply to expand my knowledge although I do not have any hopes that I would be able to achieve anything like that...ever.. :mrgreen:


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:09 pm 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:34 pm
Posts: 128
Location: Cheshire
Has thanked: 169 times
Been thanked: 1 times
I have looked more in depth into the Domino system that you mentioned and I have to say that it looks brilliant. However, I nearly choked when I saw the price of the Festool machine (£600+). :shock: The only way I can afford to use one of those is if they are available for hire. I can see how the initial outlay would be justified for a professional that is going to use the tool often but it would make no sense for me to buy one considering that it aint going to get much use.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:00 pm 
Offline
Pro Carpenter
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:11 pm
Posts: 20250
Location: redhill surrey an auld reekie laddie
Has thanked: 662 times
Been thanked: 1896 times
my thoughts for what its worth :lol:

plan several small projects to get used to materials' tools 'construction methods and shortfalls in your skills and available tools :lol:
i would not go in headlong as you will find you are near or above your skill level
you need to make mistakes to learn so better to make mistakes when the outcome is easily sorted material or time wise

_________________
we are all ------------------still learning



For this message the author big-all has received gratitude : mahoak
Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:01 pm 
Offline
Old School Chippie
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:27 pm
Posts: 5453
Location: Lancashire
Has thanked: 645 times
Been thanked: 1338 times
big-all wrote:
my thoughts for what its worth :lol:

plan several small projects to get used to materials' tools 'construction methods and shortfalls in your skills and available tools :lol:

Yes, I completely agree. I'd also add a couple of other things - whenever you try out something new it's worthwhile actually doing a "test build" of the specific features that you intend to use. that way you gain hands on experience at very little cost (and maybe you could also make some useful stuff for elsewhere in the house, or for relatives). The other thing is to do with the look and feel of a design. It's often building a miniature mockup in card (literally old cornflakes packets held together with masking tape if needs be) to help you gauge the scale of it. 3D modelling in SketchUp can also help, but it isn't everything. I have to say, though, that your design does seem to be somewhere near a complete "product", although it will probably require a bit of honing yet.

big-all wrote:
you need to make mistakes to learn so better to make mistakes when the outcome is easily sorted material or time wise

See my strapline at the bottom - a quote from Einstein, no less i.e. "The person who never made a mistake, never made anything". Something I truly believe in - especially after I've just cocked something up! :oops:

On a lighter note a thought occurred to me about the fold away cutting bench top - it will work well for long rips, but for narrow crosscuts or diagonal cuts it doesn't offer sufficient support so a sacrificial sheet will need to be deployed on top of it to ensure sufficient material support under the rail. Just a thought.

_________________
"The person who never made a mistake, never made anything" - Albert Einstein

"I too will something make, And joy in the making" - Robert Bridges, 1844~1930


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:17 pm 
Offline
Pro Carpenter
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:11 pm
Posts: 20250
Location: redhill surrey an auld reekie laddie
Has thanked: 662 times
Been thanked: 1896 times
Job and Knock wrote:
big-all wrote:
my thoughts for what its worth :lol:

plan several small projects to get used to materials' tools 'construction methods and shortfalls in your skills and available tools :lol:

Yes, I completely agree. I'd also add a couple of other things - whenever you try out something new it's worthwhile actually doing a "test build" of the specific features that you intend to use. that way you gain hands on experience at very little cost (and maybe you could also make some useful stuff for elsewhere in the house, or for relatives). The other thing is to do with the look and feel of a design. It's often building a miniature mockup in card (literally old cornflakes packets held together with masking tape if needs be) to help you gauge the scale of it. 3D modelling in SketchUp can also help, but it isn't everything. I have to say, though, that your design does seem to be somewhere near a complete "product", although it will probably require a bit of honing yet.

big-all wrote:
you need to make mistakes to learn so better to make mistakes when the outcome is easily sorted material or time wise

See my strapline at the bottom - a quote from Einstein, no less i.e. "The person who never made a mistake, never made anything". Something I truly believe in - especially after I've just cocked something up! :oops:

On a lighter note a thought occurred to me about the fold away cutting bench top - it will work well for long rips, but for narrow crosscuts or diagonal cuts it doesn't offer sufficient support so a sacrificial sheet will need to be deployed on top of it to ensure sufficient material support under the rail. Just a thought.


yes my strap line fully agrees with yours:lol:

as i always say if it looks simple you are good at what your doing
if it looks difficult you are in the wrong job :lol:

_________________
we are all ------------------still learning


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 60 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next


Similar topics
   

Time zone: Europe/London [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


 

 

 

News News Site map Site map SitemapIndex SitemapIndex RSS Feed RSS Feed Channel list Channel list
ultimatehandyman privacy policy

Contact

 

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group

phpBB SEO