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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 8:51 am 
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Hi. I have four bathroom ceiling lights, each a double 6 watt LED light, all going on at the same time, together with a fan. The bathroom is upstairs as part of an extension with a pitched roof. The crawl space is blocked off, so I assume that there are no junction boxes within it, but only the cables. When the lights failed to go on properly, yesterday, they glowed very faintly until I switched them off. This morning there is no glow. This happened a few months ago for a few hours and then suddenly the lights came fully back on. Yesterday before this happened, they were flickering a bit. I would appreciate any advice as to where to look for the fault. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:09 pm 
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Sounds like the transformer is failing. The lamps, I am guessing they are MR16 ?

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:56 pm 
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Hi Someone-else. Thanks for your reply. Do you mean a transformer inside each light unit? the light units, by which I mean the metal plate with a cable connector and two bulb holders, does not seem to have a transformer. On the metal plate, that the glass cover fixes on, it says model 21584, and M30 9QG UK. The bulbs are MiniSun Led GLS bulbs. Thanks again.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:24 pm 
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I looked at the facts.
You said all the lights did the same thing at the same time, its either a loose connection (doubtful, since you haven't touched them) or something else.
The only other thing they could have in common is a transformer / powersupply

Picture of a lamp (light bulb) would be good. (it's the connection pins I am looking for, but a nice clear in focus picture would help)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:03 pm 
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Hello again. Thanks for persevering. I know very little about electricity, I'm afraid. The bulbs are Minisun LED GLS 6watt. What I should have said is that they are ES/E27 screw type for use with a light consisting of a base plate that fixes to the ceiling and a cover, the bulbs being inside the cover and screwed into the bulb holder. So there are no pins. What I cannot be certain about is whether they are the type with an internal driver. But all the lights failed at once and the RCD did not trip, so I can't see how it could be a driver or lack of one, but I'm not sure. I checked the switch and it seems OK. Thanks again


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:32 pm 
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You are getting confused with terminology. (in its very basic forms its - )

Driver - A device which drives LED lamps by reducing the voltage / current to operate lamps, it does this with electronics

Transformer - A device made from 2 coils of wire to transform the voltage from one voltage to another.

Capacitive dropper - Uses a capacitor and very few other components to drop the incoming voltage to run an led lamp, so small it will fit inside the base / cap of most lamps

Power supply - uses a transformer and lots of electronic components to give a "clean" voltage to run LED lights

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:35 pm 
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An RCD should not trip if a lamp fails (some times they do, but its not meant to)

Your lamps do not have a driver, so as for what it is :dunno:

I can only suggest you make sure all the connections are tight (Lecy off) and also try one lamp in a different fitting on its own.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:03 pm 
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A missing neutral can cause LED lights to glow dim. They get "some neutral" due to capacitive effects off the neutral wire running next to the earth wire and so give off some light. They might even get "some neutral" through the fan.

I would say loose connection.

Where?

Well it's obvious where it is.

It's going to be the last connection you check :wink:

In starting order I would check the light switch and then the light closest to the light switch.

And the fan? Did that work?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:27 pm 
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Hi Someone-else. Thanks again. I went back to the original purchase of the bulbs and they are Minisun LED screw type B22 bulbs, which seems to mean, when I checked, that they have an internal driver( I'm just using the same word as the one I read). So the problem is not to do with the bulbs being the wrong type. In fact, I have them all over the house and they work fine. So it's the electrics. What I would like to know is this: Suppose that one of the four lights failed, say with a wire coming loose in the connector block. So that light does not work. But would all four lights stay off? And why would they go dim before failing?
In fact, those questions may no longer be relevant. I've just used a detector on the lights and with two of them it beeps and lights up when near the connector block, but with the other two lights nothing happens. None of the lights is working, but two are live and two are not. Thanks again.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:31 pm 
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Hi OnlyMe. Thanks for replying. No, the fan does not work. And two of the lights, I now discover, are live and two are not. Given what you said about a loose neutral, I think it's time to check all connections and hope it is not the last one to be checked. Thanks again


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:44 pm 
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Yes check all the connections, you could even take the light down and put a flex and plug on it and plug it in.

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Fret not, a forum is a collection of opinions. Above, are mine.

Which is correct? Metre or Meter? Click the link to find out more.

Working on anything electrical? have you got a multi meter? why not? Would you hit a nail with a shoe?

If gloom had a voice, it would be me. :mrgreen:

:idea1: How to post a picture on this forum Click here



For this message the author someone-else has received gratitude : laurencewithau
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