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 Post subject: Apprentices
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:44 am 
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Elephant Man
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Has the apprenticeship slipped of late, or is the trade just getting the dregs of school-leavers and general quarter-brains?

Been doing a large house, where there is a multi-trade firm on board. I'm deccing the house, bar the kitchen, which the firms decorators are covering. All well and good, as they are a couple of nice lads and an apprentice. But...............

The apprentice is in year 3 of his SVQ level 3, which is 'almost qualified' by my understanding of things. Now, they are constantly having to tidy up his cutting in (he holds the brush like a hammer ffs ::b ) tell him what to do, and to cap all that, he decided to try and wash a oil gloss brush out under a running tap!!! In 3rd year. Honestly?

Another lad I know (not on that job), has just came out of his time and during a conversation with him, had to ask "so what are sundries then"? This same lad has never been taught how to hang paper, either at work or at college, and has such a lack of interest in the job, it's almost embarrassing.

OK. I admit I'm a pedantic old Scots Git, but when did all this happen?

Or am I missing something? :scratch:

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 Post subject: Re: Apprentices
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:02 am 
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If he’s not been taught how to hang paper I’m surprise as you have to do this to a standard to pass your skills test to get your papers and nvq3 saying your time served.
Hardly any young guns coming through now in any trade tho. There was 50 in my year just in fife for joiners and probably only 5/6 of these were rubbish and didn’t make it.
The other trades had about the same numbers.
Nobody seems to take young lads on now tho as financialy it’s a burden unless you are a big firm.
Plus if you have a crap journeyman you are onto a loser no matter what trade you learn!


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 Post subject: Re: Apprentices
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:53 am 
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I remember a young lad in the technical college in our town, the instructor was teaching them sign writing, he stressed that the most important thing was to make yourself as comfortable as possible, so this young lad went and got a chair :lol:



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 Post subject: Re: Apprentices
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:20 am 
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i've been saying this for years.I never see any youngsters when i go into the decorating shops i know they could be working.I would like to take on an apprentice myself but i can't afford it..I often speak to the managers in the shops & ask them what sells etc.. you'd be surprised what Professionals buy & the questions they ask about painting very standard stuff which should be taught in college..I think some people get into it thinking it's an easy option & a good way of earning money..There's to many chancers in our trade who have all the chat but no idea but seem to get lots of work.


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 Post subject: Re: Apprentices
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:53 am 
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My experience with apprentices has been good, but my last one was my son, who only did year 1 and then left me to go to uni.

Through speaking to my lad and the people from college it's pretty clear that there are quite a lot that won't make it.

Some lads didn't see the point in doing the sanding as they didn't do it for their firms.

It strikes me that the decorating side should be split up into different sections, as some of the apprentices are never going to hang wallpaper or even get into people's houses, and others are never going to paint bus stops and street signs.

I was always told the benchmark for a good decorator was to be able to work in any environment, from new work, to high end private work, and I believe that to be true, although it's as much about personality as skillset.



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 Post subject: Re: Apprentices
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:06 am 
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@ steviejoiner74

His employer gave him a weeks crash course in papering before the test, and he managed to scrape through. Since that, he's not done any hanging at all.

So much of this rests with the people training these lads. I don't entirely blame learners if they're not getting proper tuition, as it ends up as the blind leading the blind.

The core skill set does seem to be getting diluted by the powers that be, and we're almost at a 'one size fits all' situation. There is the perception of an average standard being sufficient, with the zeal to really excel almost a thing of the past.

It's not universal I daresay, but what I see doesn't inspire confidence.

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 Post subject: Re: Apprentices
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:12 pm 
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dynamod wrote:
@ steviejoiner74

His employer gave him a weeks crash course in papering before the test, and he managed to scrape through. Since that, he's not done any hanging at all.

So much of this rests with the people training these lads. I don't entirely blame learners if they're not getting proper tuition, as it ends up as the blind leading the blind.

The core skill set does seem to be getting diluted by the powers that be, and we're almost at a 'one size fits all' situation. There is the perception of an average standard being sufficient, with the zeal to really excel almost a thing of the past.

It's not universal I daresay, but what I see doesn't inspire confidence.


You can view all the citb trade tests on YouTube now,joiners,decorators,brickies etc and they are still pretty much the same as they were 25-30yesrs ago but the pass rate is getting lowered just like it is with o-grades in school so it looks good for the colleges and schools.
When I did mine you needed 20 out of 24 to pass or you had to re sit at your own cost. You got 3 chances at passing and if you failed you didn’t get your papers.
One boy at my firm had a rubbish journeymen for his first 2 years and luckily he was moved to another guy and he improved rapidly which just goes to show if the guy you are working under day in and day out is crap you’ve not got much chance yourself.



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