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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:47 pm 
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We have an apprentice who has just finished his "finals" (well, Level 2, and us joiners know exactly how untrained that really is.....). He reckons he's passed and now he needs a tool kit. Exactly how he thinks he'll earn a living with what he's got beggars belief, so I sat and put together a kit list for him to buy. I'd be grateful for comments from other "chippies" on whether or not they think there should be additions - or deletions from this list - befiore I preent the lad with this mountain of debt. Here it is:

Panel saw, 22in/7pt (Recommended: BAHCO 244+ Barracuda hard point)
Tape measure, 5m (Recommended: better quaity one, e.g. Stanley Powrlock/Milwaukee/Bahco/Stanley FatMax)
Combi square, 12in/300mm (Recommended: Stanley yellow cast alloy/Stanley black cast-iron/Bahco orange)
Utiity knife, retractable (Recommended: better quality, e.g. Stanley Titan, etc) + decent quality blades (Stanley/Irwin/Milwaukee, etc)
Staedler pencils (red/black): 2B, HB and 2H (2/3 each)
Claw hammer, 16oz (Recommended: Estwing or Stanley)

Chisels:
Initial : 6, 12, 18, 25 and 32mm
Additions: 10, 15 and 20mm
(Recommended: Stanley FatMax bevel-edge firmer chisels with through tang and striking cap)
Leather/canvas chisel roll
Norton combination oilstone, 8 x 2in + oilstone box
3-in-1 oil
Eclipse #36 honing guide (or similar)
Stanley nail sets (set of 3)
Awl, birdcage maker's

Irwin spade bit set in tool roll
HSS pilot bits (2/2.5/3/3.2/4/4.5/5mm - 2/3 each in small box)
Drill/countersink sets (4 and 5mm c/w spare pilot bits - recommended: Trend Snappy)

Block plane, fine adjuster and with adjustable mouth (Recommended: vonBerger #65) + plane sock (or cut-down jeans lg with draw string)

Estwing 18in forged prybar
Small set of Allen keys, metric
Eclipse Junior hacksaw c/w spare blades
Coping saw (Recommended: Eclipse/Bahco/Irwin) c/w spare blades (good quality)
Hand screwdrivers (better quality, minimum Stanley): PZD #1, PZD #2, Phillips #2, 5.5mm straight, straight electrical driver (small)

Draper beechwood sliding mortise and marking gauge
Sliding bevel, 10in
Tape measure, 8m (same make as 5m tape)
Cat's paw pry bar (Recommended: Estwing or Stanley)
Bahco farmer's rasp/file, 10in

Tin snips, straight aircraft pattern (e.g. Irwin/Milwaukee but NOT Stanley Fat Max)
Small set of auger bits
Pair of pincers (Recommended: Ox)
Thinish string line
Chalk line (white - recommended: Stanley with alloy body) c/w spare chalk refill
Radio pliers, 6 or 8in
Cox 150P Solo QR clamps, 150mm (2 no) - originals only, not cheap repros

Spirit levels: 6ft and 2ft (Recommended: medium quality Stabila, Stanley Fat Max, Draper Pro, Ox, Empire, etc)
Torpedo level, cast, 250~350mm

Spokeshave (Recommended: Stanley #151 or Record equivalent)
Flexible stopping knife, 1-1/2in to 2in
Cork rubber (for sanding)

Pull-along kit box (Recommended: Stanley)

Please bear in mind that this lad already has a full set of cordless tools (drill, impact, jigsaw and circular saw) an so doesn't need anything more in that area, quite yet (1st and 2nd fix guns, chop saw, vacuum, etc are supplied by the firm) The rest of his toolkit is, at present, rather paltry. This isn't a DIY list - it's meant to be a list of tools to get him going as a general site joiner and he has accepted it will take a year or two to sort out his kit

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OK, I'm an "old school" chippie, so please don't ask me to do a bodge job - I didn't bring my horse today and in any case you don't seem to have a hitching rail!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:29 am 
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i have in my kit 2 block planes. a standard stanley and a low angle faithful.

i also have a old stanley 4 1/2 and 5 1/2 hand planes.

my kit kinda crosses over a little as i do odds and sodds at plumbering. like pipe slices of varying types. adjustable spannerrs. grips etc etc

diamond stones though i may look at other types for sharpening....

decent set of hand screwdrivers.

i prefer a 20 oz hammer. never carried anything less tbh. i also carry a framing hammer but its kinda in my extended kit

for the price of allen key sets its probs worth a set of imperial too. ive came accross times when ive needed em

spirit levels i carry a 40 inch stabilla 83s and also a 24 inch. i have a 78 inch rabone chesterman level but its knackered. so only any use as a straight edge.

i have never used a spoke shave haha so i dunno... maybe i should try one and buy one.

radio pliers?

the drill / countersink sets you reccomended the trend snappy. they do 2 different types. this is why i ended up with the imperial allen keys. for some reason the imperial set makes more sense. or atleast it does to me.



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:08 am 
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I left out the smoother because I doubt that it's as useful these days as it once was. The jack plane is something I personally still carry, although most of the doors we deal with are pre-hungs, so strictly speaking it's no longer absolutely necessary. I think on reflection that you are right about the diamond stones

fin wrote:
spirit levels i carry a 40 inch stabilla 83s and also a 24 inch. i have a 78 inch rabone chesterman level but its knackered. so only any use as a straight edge

The 6 foot/2 foot piring will cover most door casings and windows, hence my choice. I do carry a 4 footer as well, but I have to admit that it gets much less use than the other two. My little torpedoi level is ideal for shelves, etc.

fin wrote:
radio pliers?

Brilliant for all sorts of ods and sods tasks, especially as the proper ones can be used to cut wires

fin wrote:
radio pliers?
the drill / countersink sets you reccomended the trend snappy. they do 2 different types.[/quote]
Most of the screwd we drive are 4.5mm (#8), 5.0mm (#10) and 6.0mm (#12) and 4.0 and 5.0mm will cover those at a pinch. I was thinking about the tool steel ones rather than TCT because the TCT ones can't be resharpened on site in my experience (despite my personal preference for them) and are somewhat more fragile in my experience

thanks for the input, Fin

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OK, I'm an "old school" chippie, so please don't ask me to do a bodge job - I didn't bring my horse today and in any case you don't seem to have a hitching rail!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:32 am 
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Looks like I can be a site joiner then lol :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:11 am 
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I'd up the pilot bits to at least a pack of ten of each size, I get through them like nobody's business... and they're cheap as chips on mail order.
Bolster, Cold chisel, Set of Beaver bits, Stanley trestles, Mixed set of cordless driver bits - flats, Philip's, pozi's, alan keys, torx, inc mag holder, Set of punches, multi tool blades, router bits? - Or maybe not yet, skeleton gun? and the list goes on!

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:54 am 
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I don't own a 16oz. hammer, I certainly can't imagine driving in a few kilos of 4" nails with one, I'd recommend a 20 or 24oz.

I also don't have a Catspaw, I've used them and I know they're good, just never got around to buying one - I wouldn't want to be without my flat bar though.

I've also always carried a tenon saw, a hardpoint is good enough for site work, leave the brass-backed in the workshop.

Adjustable spanner.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:28 am 
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No doubt now he has 'passed' he will be asking for a large pay rise :wink:

Thats usually what I get, even though aprentices these days can barely read a tape measure, use a cordless screwdriver to drill straight and not mush heads, a lack of finesse and of course 'tidy up!, what me?'

I had an apprentice a couple of years ago that when told off for not tidying up after he has finished a job said to me 'but nobody has told me to tidy up'

back on topic -yes looks a good basic kit.

I would suggest:

-a standard compass for those occasions when a circle needs drawing.

-A set of mixed screwdriver bits, torx, philips, hex, square etc - to cover all those kitchen, decking screw etc etc non pozi no 2 head types

-12mm brad point bit if you ever use timber plugs if you do lots of jobs in oak

-right angled triangle solver app (android download which is free) -fantastic if you need to work out angles or triangulate to set out.

- a large whip -which he needs to hand over to you :-)



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:42 am 
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I've never been a site joiner, but I've worked as one (of a sort) on a small site.
Looks a good list J & K going from the way you have said things are done these days.
Like ayjay I'd add an adjustable spanner.
Possibly a "Mole" type self grip wrench, just because they are so useful. I've always carried a pair in my vehicles, and I can remember going out to get them quite a few times. Not strictly a joiners tool though.
I prefer the Bahco 228 type junior hacksaw. I always hated the "bent wire" things, and a mate of mine gashed his finger badly enough to need a couple of stitches when changing the blade in that type.
I'd call your "radio pliers" "snipe nosed pliers" The "radio" variety being needle nosed w/o cutter to me. That's just a terminology thing though. They get called "radio" "snipe nosed" and "chain nosed" pliers that I can thing of offhand.



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:02 pm 
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Level 2 and he's a qualified joiner... :shock:
Level 2 is 2nd year up here,level 3 3rd year and advanced in 4th year with trade test!
The list looks good tho j&k!
I use a surf form a lot tho,I'd add one of them in and they are nice and cheap and a must imo when boarding.



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:13 pm 
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We were all "qualified" when we got our papers mate.
Or thought we were! :lol:
"B" Certificate for leccys when I took mine in the 70s.
I remember it being a steep learning curve when I was made up to an improver and had to work on my own.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:08 pm 
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Handyman in Sussex wrote:
Bolster, Cold chisel, Set of Beaver bits, Stanley trestles

Clubbyt and bolster, maybe, but folding trestles? As an ec=-apprentice I'd give him some 3 x 2 softwood and tell him to make his own (and at this stage of the game he'd better be able to!) Butt wht, pary are "Beaver bits"? :dunno:

Handyman in Sussex wrote:
multi tool blades, router bits? - Or maybe not yet, skeleton gun?

Probably a bit too advanced - it will be a few years until he can get a multi tool or router. Skeleton gun may be a good idea, but I think the firm would provide those, if needed, although the bigger jobs always get a "mastic man" in towards the end

ayjay wrote:
I don't own a 16oz. hammer, I certainly can't imagine driving in a few kilos of 4" nails with one, I'd recommend a 20 or 24oz.

Apologies far that. I use a welded-head Stanley which is only 15 oz, hence my mistake - that 15oz gives the equivalent blow of something like a 20 to 22 oz conventional hammer. I'll adjust my suggestion to 20oz. (conventional) hammer. The adjustable spanner is a good idea as well, but maybe not as a primary tool?

Notch1 wrote:
a standard compass for those occasions when a circle needs drawing.

Now that's a good idea. Very handy for both scribing and bisecting angles, as well qs to drw circles

Dave54 wrote:
I'd call your "radio pliers" "snipe nosed pliers" The "radio" variety being needle nosed w/o cutter to me. That's just a terminology thing though. They get called "radio" "snipe nosed" and "chain nosed" pliers that I can thing of offhand.

Point taken - bit of a faux pas on my part

steviejoiner74 wrote:
I use a surf form a lot tho,I'd add one of them in and they are nice and cheap and a must imo when boarding.

A good suggeton. We don't board all that often (there are dry liners on many jobs these days), but nonetheless a useful bit of kit

Thanks for your many suggestions which I'll incorporate into "The List". Despite having thiought this one through for a while I still missed a few of my own staple tools from the list, so thanks to you all for pointing out my omissions.

As to "qualified" I have made the comments that he won't be worth what I get paid for a few years, yet.

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OK, I'm an "old school" chippie, so please don't ask me to do a bodge job - I didn't bring my horse today and in any case you don't seem to have a hitching rail!


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:01 am 
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[quote="Handyman in Sussex"] Butt wht, pary are "Beaver bits"? :dunno:

[quote="Handyman in Sussex"]

These:

http://www.screwfix.com/p/armeg-stubby- ... 0wodZOgFaQ

More part of a plumbers and sparks tool kit, but they don't half drill out for a tube latch or mortice lock quickly, especially in an impact driver! ... Naughty I know

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:31 am 
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Agreed sounds a basic kit. I also wondered when you mentioned a 16oz hammer , I stick with a 20oz . On the subject of hitting tools I also tend to carry a lighter Warrington pattern hammer along with nail punches , a lump hammer and a rubber mallet. The last is useful for using with chisels , even if they are designed to be used with a hammer , and also good at making "adjustments" without marking or damaging things.
I also carry a couple of moveable spanners although they aren't brilliant as I've found all makes tend to move during use but then I've also got a set or rather part set of regular spanners in the common sizes I'm likely to encounter.
I carry a jack plane and one I'd recommend to carry is a rebate plane lost count of the times that has proved invaluable . The other tool you haven't mentioned and one I'd not be without is an axe. Again such a useful tool for roofing , scribbing , shaping , defrazzing and I've even eased doors with mine.
One other suggestion could be an eclipse multi saw ( http://www.spear-and-jackson.com/produc ... urpose-saw ) which while they don't cut any one thing wonderfully do work brilliantly in really awkward jobs say where timber has to be cut where there's a fixing.



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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:15 pm 
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Grendel wrote:
Agreed sounds a basic kit. I also wondered when you mentioned a 16oz hammer , I stick with a 20oz . On the subject of hitting tools I also tend to carry a lighter Warrington pattern hammer along with nail punches , a lump hammer and a rubber mallet. The last is useful for using with chisels , even if they are designed to be used with a hammer , and also good at making "adjustments" without marking or damaging things.
I also carry a couple of moveable spanners although they aren't brilliant as I've found all makes tend to move during use but then I've also got a set or rather part set of regular spanners in the common sizes I'm likely to encounter.
I carry a jack plane and one I'd recommend to carry is a rebate plane lost count of the times that has proved invaluable . The other tool you haven't mentioned and one I'd not be without is an axe. Again such a useful tool for roofing , scribbing , shaping , defrazzing and I've even eased doors with mine.
One other suggestion could be an eclipse multi saw ( http://www.spear-and-jackson.com/produc ... urpose-saw ) which while they don't cut any one thing wonderfully do work brilliantly in really awkward jobs say where timber has to be cut where there's a fixing.


Yeah forgot about my axe! Been in my toolkit since I was an apprentice.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:40 pm 
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J&K What is a Clubbyt?

A quick Google doesn't show any results for it but gives me this: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Clubby

"Bro, that chick I banged last night had a raging clubby".

"The word clubby refers to the heightened state of a women's sexual arousal that results in an erect clitoris".

I've gotta get me one of those in my toolbox :thumbleft:

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