DIY Forum

DIY Forum/Home improvement advice

 

 

A-Z CONTENTS | DISCLAIMER | DIRECTORY | DIY VIDEO | HOME | SAFETY FIRST | FORUM RULES

It is currently Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:42 pm
Drainage online 


Time zone: Europe/London [ DST ]




 

 


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:19 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:27 pm
Posts: 110
Location: North Yorks
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 8 times
I've got to lay some engineered wood flooring in our hall and am a bit unsure of the best way to proceed. The flooring itself is good stuff, 13mm birch ply under 6mm oak and seems very stable where I've used it elsewhere. I have 2 issues,
1: the sub floor is concrete for about 3/4 of the area and floor boards for the remainder.
2: there is a 90 deg corner so far down the hall and am a little unsure of the best way to deal with this.
there should be a diagram below showing the layout and subfloor below (concrete in grey, floor boards in yellow) with a potential layout proposal shown using outline boards in black.
There should also be a couple of pics attached.
I was wondering is I could get away with utting leveling compund down to get the concrete bang on, some ply to bring the floor boards up to match and then laying the floor on top of an underlay as a floating floor????
One concern I have with this is that the boards aat the corner and kitchen end of the hall will be pretty short if the run width ways across the hall and would they be more susceptible to movement?
All info and sugestions greatly appreciated :-)
Image

Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 

You may not be able to see the full post including pictures unless you register or log in

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:24 am 
Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:27 pm
Posts: 1472
Location: Lancashire
Has thanked: 63 times
Been thanked: 201 times
Personally I'm not a fan of shorts, but sometimes they're a necessary evil, I suppose. I really don't like that mitre, though. Why not just have a right angle butt joint and run the short leg length ways?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:10 pm 
Offline
Wood Floor Installer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:40 pm
Posts: 3093
Location: Manchester
Has thanked: 297 times
Been thanked: 357 times
Hi Pigglet,

Your layout proposal looks sound. My opinion would be to keep everything straight, running from front to back of the house or whatever works best for the room. Definitely keep everything straight though, as you plan suggests. That mitre and threshold bar is a killer.

Your levelling method sounds fine. However, do you have too. Which is lower? the floor boards or the concrete?

If the boards are a click system, you could apply pva wood adhesive in the locking system starting from the bathroom door to give extra bond to the main body of the floor and carry on applying the pva in all the short lengths. If it's T & G, you'll be doing that anyway.

_________________
fitmywoodfloor.co.uk <<<<< No, not my wood floor, your wood floor :?
______________________________________________________________________________________

>>>>>> Manchester based solid, engineered and laminate floor installer <<<<<<


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:46 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:27 pm
Posts: 110
Location: North Yorks
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 8 times
Thanks for the reply's guys. I don't really want a butt joint, I did wonder about staggering the joint at the corner using the groove on the long side of the boards running fron the kitchen (the shortest run) and starting the longest run by slotting the tongue on the end of those boards into that groove. Dunno if that makes sense or not but then both sections would be running length ways into the corner and the joint would be a staggered zig zag across the corner where the laminate joining strip currently is. My concern with doing this was that none of the walls seem to be sqaure to each other and that it would end up looking worse than all the boards running the same way resulting in the short boards on the short run.

Re levelling the floor, both the sub floor boards and concrete are at the same height, there is a bit of high spot where the 2 join but I intend to flat that back. Untill I get the nasty laminate up and put a straight edge on it I don't really know what it's like. I just thought it might be more critical to get it bang on in the area where the short lengths will be to ensure there is no movement. The underlay is about 3-4mm thick, it's this stuff:
http://tradepriced.co.uk/cushnwood_lami ... erlay.html
Just a bit unsure about it all and as I've not laid wood (or any flooring for that matter) over concrete before I just want to get it right. We hope it will be down for a very long time!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:28 pm 
Offline
Wood Floor Installer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:40 pm
Posts: 3093
Location: Manchester
Has thanked: 297 times
Been thanked: 357 times
Hi Pigglet,

Quote:
I did wonder about staggering the joint at the corner using the groove on the long side of the boards running fron the kitchen (the shortest run) and starting the longest run by slotting the tongue on the end of those boards into that groove.


The way I read that is, you want to work outwards from the corner and have a herringbone style pattern at that junction. This may be a little tricky making it look right and may end up just looking odd. Each following overlapped join would be repeated at the width of each board (probably around 8 inches) all the way down the hallway. However, if you did want to install in that fashion, I would suggest starting off the first 3 or 4 rows away from the walls (so you'll have something looking a lot like a large boomerang :-)), around half a planks width away from the wall, and using compression ratchets, see pic below, (if it's a glue free click system - ratchets not needed). Then fill in what would generally be the first rows after you have it lined up correctly. If it is a click engineered, I would suggest using pva adhesive at the herringbone join to give it strength. This type of installation really is easier said than done for someone that hasn't a great deal of experience fitting wood floors. If I were advising a customer, my opinion would be that the floor would look neater and less fussy all running in the same direction.

Attachment:
Engineered oak fitting using tension straps resized.jpg
Engineered oak fitting using tension straps resized.jpg [ 51.97 KiB | Viewed 682 times ]


Quote:
Re levelling the floor


This, as you mention, is best decided when the laminate is lifted. Floor coverings and any packings used can hide allsorts. Let us know what you find when the laminate is removed. That underlay seems fine. Built in DPM :thumbright:

Quote:
Just a bit unsure about it all and as I've not laid wood (or any flooring for that matter) over concrete before I just want to get it right


Does this mean you've never laid a wood floor at all, or you've laid a wood floor in the past over a wood substrate (floorboards, chipboard etc). If it's your first time laying a wood floor, you've picked a pig to start with pigglet :lol: Hallways and bathrooms are a right pain in the troth :-) I'd certainly advise you look at an engineered click system. Far easier that a glued type and if done correctly will give the same long lasting results and can still be sanded in the future.

If it's going to be down a long time. as well as the levels, my thoughts would be to think equally about the finish i.e. undercutting doorways, finishing the edges with expansion beading (well!) or remove the skirting boards?

Let us know if you need any tips on the above :thumbright:

Wes.

_________________
fitmywoodfloor.co.uk <<<<< No, not my wood floor, your wood floor :?
______________________________________________________________________________________

>>>>>> Manchester based solid, engineered and laminate floor installer <<<<<<


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:48 pm 
Offline
Pro Carpenter
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:11 pm
Posts: 15082
Location: redhill surrey an auld reekie laddie
Has thanked: 295 times
Been thanked: 955 times
unless both legs are very close in width the "herringbone" will have one or more same length planks or you will have the pattern around the corner
in other words draw a line at 45 degrees from the outside corner to the wall if the line meets the wall away from the corner
the area to the corner will have an extra length/lengths meeting against the one edge or 90 degrees to the rest along that wall

although you will actually have to start from the inside and have the odd sections at the outside edge

_________________
we are all ------------------still learning


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:42 am 
Offline
Senior Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 7:27 pm
Posts: 110
Location: North Yorks
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 8 times
Wes, thanks for that. I have laid flooring T&G solid flooring in the last house (did the whole downstairs) as well as the engineered I have used in this house. I have strap clamps, it's just all the flooring I have laid so far has been secret nailed onto a timber subfloor which is pretty fool proof (at least it seemed that way to a rank amateur, ignorance is bliss :lol: ) The floating floor idea just makes me a little nervous :oops: All the skirting and architrave is coming off to allow for expansion gaps as well as the fact that whats currently fitted looks rather dated! When you say undercutting doorways do you mean cutting the casing to allow the floor board to slide under it? If so I'm down with that too.

Big All, I think I'm just going to go with running all the boards in the same direction. I'm worried the herring bone joint idea at the corner may end up looking both odd and being more prone to movement if it's floating, especially as there is a doorway in the middle of the corner. Combination of lack of skills and bottle :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:39 pm 
Offline
Wood Floor Installer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:40 pm
Posts: 3093
Location: Manchester
Has thanked: 297 times
Been thanked: 357 times
Hi Pigglet,

Floating floors can be a little more difficult as you'll need a lot more precision with your cuts and you'll have to be a lot more gentle when knocking the boards together. As I mentioned, you've picked an awkward room as you're first attempt :-) The reason for any difficulty will be the amount of doorways.

Quote:
When you say undercutting doorways do you mean cutting the casing to allow the floor board to slide under it


Yes. Taking the architraves off is going to make life a lot easier. You wont need to cut the entire casing/frame. Just the relevant amount. It will help you by pre cutting all your door threshold plates first. Working out where they're going to sit in each doorway (don't fit them at that point though). Then marking off where to cut. Remembering you need to cut at least 15mm past where the floor is going to finish, to allow for expansion. Pre cutting the door thresholds will also help when fitting the floor across the doorways. This will have to be done very neatly and straight as you will not have a lot of tolerance to work with. The video below shows where the floor must finish in relation to the threshold/profile to allow correct expansion. If you skip to 1:37 that is the perfect fitting. I thought a video would explain this better than me trying to describe it :-) Disregard the fact that the video is for a laminate. Expansions gaps are essentially the same.



What are you fitting Pigglet? Is it an engineered T & G Glued floor or a non glued click system?

Another bit of advice I'd pass on, is to have a small off cut of the new architrave and skirting board with you as you fit the floor. You will be able to check that you have complete coverage as you go along. In other words, no unsightly gaps like the pic below :thumbright:

Attachment:
Poorly fitted laminate.jpg
Poorly fitted laminate.jpg [ 185.49 KiB | Viewed 638 times ]
:roll:

_________________
fitmywoodfloor.co.uk <<<<< No, not my wood floor, your wood floor :?
______________________________________________________________________________________

>>>>>> Manchester based solid, engineered and laminate floor installer <<<<<<


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 8 posts ] 



Similar topics
   

Time zone: Europe/London [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


News News Site map Site map SitemapIndex SitemapIndex RSS Feed RSS Feed Channel list Channel list
ultimatehandyman privacy policy

Contact

 



phpBB SEO