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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:49 pm 
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Hi All,

I would like to make a structural alteration to my roof and seek second opinions.

I have a typical roof structure set up (see 3D image attached) with the ceiling joists connected to the side of the rafters. I need to remove a ceiling joist and connect it back to the other side of the rafter. (see the attached plan showing EXISTING and PROPOSED ALTERATION).

We do have a load bearing wall at roughly mid-span (shown in yellow). Can i do as shown or should i make the connection above the LB wall?

Any help would be really appreciated.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:46 pm 
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I would put a full length joist from the new position on the rafter back to the load bearing wall, bolted to the existing joist and rafter, and then cut out the section you propose.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:37 pm 
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Thanks for your reply markson.

OK I now have more detailed queries with this. I attached more images to help explain.

I intend to leave most of the existing ceiling joist in place (brown), I just need to remove say 600mm from one end. I will connect the new ceiling joist (orange) to the existing as shown with packers which are the same thickness (35mm) of the rafter (purple). The problem is that I can only get to one side of the existing ceiling joist so that makes bolted connections impossible.

What fixings would you recommend?

I would like to use a Joyner bolt to connect the rafter and the new ceiling joist as access to both sides is possible here. Does anyone know a good place to get these I only see them on sale in packs of 10 or more? or is there an alternative?

Lastly, regarding the sequence of work, I could do with cutting the existing joist out of the way first or is this a 'No No'? I could temporary brace the rafters either side? and also should I brace the ceiling from below just incase? The distance from wall plate to wall plate is just over 2m so I expect I could just crack on with no consequences but I'd appreciate any thoughts from more experienced builders.

Thanks


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:43 pm 
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Anybody out there? I could really do with your advice please...

Thanks


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:05 pm 
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DIYnot23 wrote:
The problem is that I can only get to one side of the existing ceiling joist so that makes bolted connections impossible.

What fixings would you recommend?

Timbalocks or Coach Screws

I would like to use a Joyner bolt to connect the rafter and the new ceiling joist as access to both sides is possible here. Does anyone know a good place to get these I only see them on sale in packs of 10 or more? or is there an alternative?

Just normal Coach Bolts.

Lastly, regarding the sequence of work, I could do with cutting the existing joist out of the way first or is this a 'No No'? I could temporary brace the rafters either side? and also should I brace the ceiling from below just incase? The distance from wall plate to wall plate is just over 2m so I expect I could just crack on with no consequences but I'd appreciate any thoughts from more experienced builders.

So long as the joists are only supporting the ceiling, I'd screw a 4 X 2 across the top of either one or two joists either side of the one coming out, (two is better).

Thanks

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:37 pm 
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Thanks ayjay,

Good advice but i'm a bit confused by your last point

'So long as the joists are only supporting the ceiling, I'd screw a 4 X 2 across the top of either one or two joists either side of the one coming out, (two is better)'

As you can see by the photo a can't run a 4 x 2 accross the top of the ceiling joist because the floor joists are in the way. Any other suggestions or have I misunderstood you?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:17 pm 
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DIYnot23 wrote:
Thanks ayjay,

Good advice but i'm a bit confused by your last point

'So long as the joists are only supporting the ceiling, I'd screw a 4 X 2 across the top of either one or two joists either side of the one coming out, (two is better)'

As you can see by the photo a can't run a 4 x 2 accross the top of the ceiling joist because the floor joists are in the way. Any other suggestions or have I misunderstood you?


OK, looking closer at IMAG0920.jpg, it does look as though there are ceiling joists separate to the floor joists - is that what you mean?

If so, you can still support them from the floor joists if you drop a short leg down from the a 4 X 2 to the ceiling joist, (Timbalocks would be good for this) otherwise just prop them from underneath, once again with the caveat that the ceiling joists are only supporting the ceiling - with no walls built off them or anything like that.

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For this message the author ayjay has received gratitude : DIYnot23
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:46 pm 
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Thanks again.

Yes, as the photo shows we have the original ceiling joists 4x2s and then newer floor joists 6x2s. The ceiling joists are only supporting the ceiling (and obviously tying together the rafters).

For the alteration of the ceiling joist I will just prop from below as that will be far easier.

After I have altered the ceiling joist I also want to put a new floor joist in so that I can cut a section of 1 floor joist away. I think the ashlaring wall may be built off the floor joists but providing i'm putting a new one next to it again spanning between loadbearing walls all should be OK. everything will be within 450mm centres as stated on approved drawings.

In summary & sequence then:

CEILING JOIST
1. Prop the ceiling joist in question from below.
2. Disconnect rafter and ceiling joist (1 bolt) then cut end of ceiling joist away.
3. Fix new ceiling joist alongside existing cut one. Bearing between internal LB wall and internal leaf of external wall. Fixed using timbalock/coach screws (predrilled holes so no splitting).
4. Reconnect new ceiling joist to other side of rafter using same bolt or standard coach bolt.

FLOOR JOIST
5. Install new 6 x 2 floor joist (approx. 250-300mm way from one to be removed). Bearing between internal LB wall and internal leaf of external wall. skew nailed to wall plate
6. Install bracing/noggins etc. then cut away end of floor joist. Note the wall built above floor joists remains untouched.

Thanks in advance!


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:16 am 
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Had a good weekend of DIY. I have now altered the ceiling joist & the fixing recommended worked a treat - Thanks.

Just a bit of tidying up now such as adding some noggins and additional fixings to plasterboard ceiling.


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