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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:01 pm 
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Hi All
I've been reading lots and lots on this forum and in general on painting. I've got a new house and more or less need to redecorate the entire place (luckily it's empty at moment). I've been to Brewers and picked up a bunch of samples from the Dulux Trade range, and decided on one of their off white colours. To make it easier, the same colour will be applied throughout the house. Now I just need to buy the paint, but not sure on a few things.

I've decided to go for Dulux Trade Vinyl Soft Sheen for all of the living room, bedroom and hallway walls. For the Skirting/doors, I'm probably going for Dulux Trade High Gloss in Pure Brilliant White (I've read that the water based gloss paints are not as good as the oil ones and not as tough wearing?)

But when it comes to ceilings, kitchens and bathrooms I'm confused!
  • Should I get DT Vinyl Matt or DT Flat Matt for the ceilings? What's the difference between these?
  • For a ceiling, is it best to stick to their Pure Brilliant White - or just their normal white?
  • In kitchen and bathrooms, I've read that due to the moisture (and I'm assuming the water contact) that some paints are not suitable, and to use Acrylic Eggshell. Would this translate into the DT Diamond Eggshell?
  • Again, for the kitchens and bathrooms only I was going to paint the walls in Pure Brilliant White - although if this would make it too bright, then might stick to the same off white/or just plain white?

Also on my shopping list are sets of Purdy brushes (a few for water and a cutting in brush, and separate one thats good for oil based), and a short and a long pile rollers. Lots of people have recommended them to me, although I did read on here that Corona are possibly the best? Any thoughts on which to get?

thanks in advance!


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:51 pm 
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:welcomeuhm:

Not many of the professionals (I am a DIYer) here use Dulux so you will possibly get limited answers.

I guess the house has been lived in before, do you have young children, dogs, do you play football and come back covered in mud? If yes, and if the budget stretches you could/should? consider some of the durable types of paint for the walls (diamond matt I think in dulux speak). Although soft sheen will take some abuse, more abuse than a vinyl matt paint.

You mention a paint for doors and trim etc. so you achieve a high gloss. Worth reading this thread on yellowing gloss. Sorry, I am not checking if the paint is oil or water based.

Quote:
Should I get DT Vinyl Matt or DT Flat Matt for the ceilings? What's the difference between these?
Dulux speak ... vinyl matt is your standard emulsion, flat matt no idea what Dulux means with this BTW. I found Durable flat matt on the dulux webste ????.
Quote:
For a ceiling, is it best to stick to their Pure Brilliant White - or just their normal white?
No comment, see below.
Quote:
In kitchen and bathrooms, I've read that due to the moisture (and I'm assuming the water contact) that some paints are not suitable, and to use Acrylic Eggshell. Would this translate into the DT Diamond Eggshell?
Yes. It is partly for water contact but mainly for steam and wipeability.
Quote:
Again, for the kitchens and bathrooms only I was going to paint the walls in Pure Brilliant White - although if this would make it too bright, then might stick to the same off white/or just plain white?
I personally would not paint walls (or ceiling) in my kitchen white as I have a habit of cooking but your question needs someone who knows dulux products and then it is your aesthetics.
Quote:
Also on my shopping list are sets of Purdy brushes (a few for water and a cutting in brush, and separate one thats good for oil based), and a short and a long pile rollers. Lots of people have recommended them to me, although I did read on here that Corona are possibly the best? Any thoughts on which to get?
Purdy are fine although for some people (me too) they may be a touch too stiff for delicate laying off of paint. See if you can get a box set. I have not used coronas but one of the resident professionals is in love with them :love4:

Rollers I am not sure why you need a sort and a long pile. For your emulsion work I would have said a medium pile (hamilton microfibre medium pile[*]) and as you are going to be painting a whole house you might want to invest in a pole+frame and go up to a 12" sleeve (as well as your 9" sleeve+handle). You may need a longer pile sleeve but that would depend on what surfaces you have got in the house, or how high are your ceilings etc.

Using a roller sleeve on doors is not as straightforward. (a) it depends on what paint you use, oil or water based and therefore what sleeve; (b) how particular you are with regards to laying off the paint or leaving on the door the finest orange peel effect the best sleeves will give you.

I hope you got enough to keep going :-)

--
[*] I think they have dropped the microfibre word from their sleeves but do check.



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:49 pm 
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I think they have dropped the microfibre word from their sleeves but do check.


Yes they have.



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:11 pm 
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Hi Tom & OchAye
Many thanks for the responses. I read the post on the yellowing paint - very interesting. The Dulux High Gloss is oil based, although they do a water based one - but again reading more posts it seems that a lot of people have problems working with it.

Thanks for the advice on the brushes and rollers - will have a read up on them and take a look.

Out of curiosity - you say that not many professionals use the Dulux Trade paint. Can I ask why this is, and what brands do they use instead?

Many thanks!


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:46 pm 
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Out of curiosity - you say that not many professionals use the Dulux Trade paint. Can I ask why this is, and what brands do they use instead?


I think that's a slight exaggeration. Dulux Trade as a brand would disappear if "not many porfessionals" used it. Most DIYers buy paint from the likes of B&Q and Wickes and they usually buy own brand paints of brands like Valspar or Dulux "retail" (as opposed to Dulux Trade).

Having said that, it is true that a good proportion of the professional decorators who comment on here don't like Dulux Trade, but the number of professional decorators who are active on this forum is only a small percentage of the professional decorators operating in the UK.

I use Dulux Trade almost without exception. The only time I don't use it is when the customer has already bought the paint before I have been to do the quote. I don't have any problems with Dulux Trade. Over 85% of my business is repeat business or referrals from satisfied existing customers, so that leads me to conclude that my customers like Dulux Trade as well.

As with most things, you will get lots of different opinions about a particular brand. The brand you use is down to your own interpretation of others' opinions.

I choose Dulux Trade for several reasons:

1) Customers know the brand Dulux and they trust it.

2) Dulux Trade covers virtually any old colour in two coats, whereas Dulux Retail often needs three, especially over darker colours.

3) I experimented with lots of different brands when I first started and I found Dulux Trade was the best product for me.

4) My nearest Dulux Trade supplier is a one minute drive from my house and I like to buy locally as, even thought the shop is part of a chain, all the employees in that shop are locals.

5) Other paint suppliers, e.g. Crown Trade, Wickes, Johnstones, B&Q, ect. are a minimum of a 24-mile round trip away from where I live and none of them employ people from my own town. If I were to use any of them I would be wasting at least one hour, often more, on each visit, plus I would be spending money on fuel and wear and tear of my van. That cost would have to be passed on to my customers. Because I don't have to travel for more than a minute to collect my paint, I don't have to put a mark-up on the paint; in fact, I pass the substantial discount I get on the paint onto my customers so they aren't paying much more than if they bought an inferior (in my opinion) product from somewhere like B&Q.

Those are my considered reasons for being a Dulux Trade fan but, naturally, other people will have different reasons for not using it.

My recommendation: yes, listen to opinions, especially from professionals, but then try different brands yourself until you find the one that you prefer (and preference comes for many different reasons) and then stick with that.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:23 pm 
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My fault for the exaggeration. I wrote "Not many of the professionals (I am a DIYer) here use Dulux so you will possibly get limited answers."

Too many brackets spoil the broth :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 4:58 pm 
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dacoops wrote:
Many thanks for the responses. I read the post on the yellowing paint - very interesting. The Dulux High Gloss is oil based, although they do a water based one - but again reading more posts it seems that a lot of people have problems working with it.
<snip>
Out of curiosity - you say that not many professionals use the Dulux Trade paint. Can I ask why this is, and what brands do they use instead?


I meant too many professionals on this forum do not use Dulux trade (and most hate with a passion the retail versions of dulux and any other paint really).

Tom, that you have just met, uses Dulux. The majority use Johnstone's trade, a few and more occasionally Crown Trade. The reason they chose Johnstone's paints seems to be quality/service at the trade counter/price. For example, Crown or Dulux won't match for the Johnstone's prices. You and I will just pay full price anyway.

I use exclusively crown trade for emulsions and other bits (how often I use paint is another story). It is not particularly cheap, but I have bought for 30 years from the same trade shop and stayed there because the service was exceptional. The cost of paint is the least of my worries in life.

However, nearly everyone here, will use specialist paints from other makes (e,g, zinsser for primers and sealers), different brands for eggshell or satin paints, and the same for exterior products and wood stains/varnishes. My problem is that I cannot personally help you with "gloss" as it is something I don't use inside the house and my outside experience is not relevant to what you need. Read the forum.

Oil based paints have their own issues to do with application. Do not get runs and keep clean until the paint dries up. Water based require different techniques, e.g. work fast, keep the room cooler than warmer, use the best brushes money can buy, prewetting brushes, possibly prewetting the surface to be painted etc. WB paint sets fast and it is too easy to go over it once it starts setting and leave brush marks. Preparation is the key to any good paint job, in both cases you will need to do as much work and particularly for water based clean surfaces well, both will need an undercoat, and the water based may need a primer (or primer undercoat) if it goes on an oil based painted surface.

Oh, and if you go to youtube and look at videos, don't look at the videos of amateurs and professionals painting. All the large trade paint companies (Dulux, Crown certainly ... etc) post videos themselves of how to use their paints. Look at those, at least they know what they are talking about as far as their products are concerned.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:29 pm 
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Sorry OchAye, I read dacoops reply without referring back to yours for clarity.

Quote:
Too many brackets spoil the broth


Too many bangers of Lamb's Navy spoil my reading skills...

Edit - and, yes, it is a tad early but the sun never appeared here today, let alone dropped below the yardarm...


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:13 pm 
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Tom d'Angler wrote:
Sorry OchAye, I read dacoops reply without referring back to yours for clarity.

Quote:
Too many brackets spoil the broth


Too many bangers of Lamb's Navy spoil my reading skills...

Edit - and, yes, it is a tad early but the sun never appeared here today, let alone dropped below the yardarm...


Don't worry, when I reread my OP I thought I had missed a word which completely changed the meaning. I was writing an answer to explain and realised the missing word was there but I had screwed it up. Anyhow, I am sure the original poster will go and read more, then get some paint, stick it in a bucket in the middle of the room and then spend even longer figuring out the best way to cause an explosion.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 6:37 pm 
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dacoops wrote:
Hi All
I've been reading lots and lots on this forum and in general on painting. I've got a new house and more or less need to redecorate the entire place (luckily it's empty at moment). I've been to Brewers and picked up a bunch of samples from the Dulux Trade range, and decided on one of their off white colours. To make it easier, the same colour will be applied throughout the house. Now I just need to buy the paint, but not sure on a few things.

I've decided to go for Dulux Trade Vinyl Soft Sheen for all of the living room, bedroom and hallway walls. For the Skirting/doors, I'm probably going for Dulux Trade High Gloss in Pure Brilliant White (I've read that the water based gloss paints are not as good as the oil ones and not as tough wearing?)

But when it comes to ceilings, kitchens and bathrooms I'm confused!
  • Should I get DT Vinyl Matt or DT Flat Matt for the ceilings? What's the difference between these?
  • For a ceiling, is it best to stick to their Pure Brilliant White - or just their normal white?
  • In kitchen and bathrooms, I've read that due to the moisture (and I'm assuming the water contact) that some paints are not suitable, and to use Acrylic Eggshell. Would this translate into the DT Diamond Eggshell?
  • Again, for the kitchens and bathrooms only I was going to paint the walls in Pure Brilliant White - although if this would make it too bright, then might stick to the same off white/or just plain white?

Also on my shopping list are sets of Purdy brushes (a few for water and a cutting in brush, and separate one thats good for oil based), and a short and a long pile rollers. Lots of people have recommended them to me, although I did read on here that Corona are possibly the best? Any thoughts on which to get?

thanks in advance!


My 2 cents...

Soft sheen is vinyl silk by any other name and it's rank compared to matt. And not necessary these days with harder wearing matt available.

Dulux trade is massively overpriced unless you've been noshing off your local supplier for years. Crown Trade is cheaper and better. Johnstone's is cheaper and better still.

Purdy brushes are huuuugely overpriced and not as good as they used to be. Wooster / Proform are a better option.

Waterbased acrylic gloss is just as hard-wearing as oil. Yes they're not as easy to use, but at least it stays white. Only dinosaurs are using oil paints inside houses these days.

You only need an eggshell paint in kitchen/bathroom if your house is old, cold and damp and you dont have or correctly use extractor fans.



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:57 pm 
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Dulux trade is massively overpriced unless you've been noshing off your local supplier for years. Crown Trade is cheaper and better. Johnstone's is cheaper and better still.


A lot of people say that Dulux Trade is overpriced. I pay £37.69 inc VAT for 5l of tinted DT VM, and £23.34 of pbw DT Satinwood.

How do those prices compare to the likes of Crown Trade and Johnstone's?

(I agree the Dulux Trade Decorator Centres are massively overpriced... even with the discount they offered me for all of my custom, they were still around 12% dearer than what I currently pay.)


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:41 pm 
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Tom d'Angler wrote:
Quote:
Dulux trade is massively overpriced unless you've been noshing off your local supplier for years. Crown Trade is cheaper and better. Johnstone's is cheaper and better still.


A lot of people say that Dulux Trade is overpriced. I pay £37.69 inc VAT for 5l of tinted DT VM, and £23.34 of pbw DT Satinwood.

How do those prices compare to the likes of Crown Trade and Johnstone's?

(I agree the Dulux Trade Decorator Centres are massively overpriced... even with the discount they offered me for all of my custom, they were still around 12% dearer than what I currently pay.)

I pay £23.99 for 5L of tinted Leyland trade VM. Leyland produce good quality VM emulsion, certainly on par with Johnstone's and a lot better than Dulux and Crown in my opinion.



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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:05 pm 
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Once again, many thanks for all the replies. From everything that I've read and the replies, it sounds as if I'm more or less on the right track for my choice of paint for the walls/ceiling/bathroom. Main things it seems is that getting brilliant white for the kitchen might need a rethink but purely on colour only (decision for the better half to make) - but Diamond eggshell should do well. Gloss seems to be a bit of a mine field from the sounds of it. I don't quite like the sound of how hard work getting water based gloss to finish right maybe. I'm guessing that initially I'm going to be slow painting, so there'll probably be more chances of making a mess and making the finish look untidy. That's obviously not to say that working with oil based gloss will be any easier - but I suppose it might just be trial and error.

I don't mind paying for expensive brushes and rollers. The way I see it is that this house is probably the only house I'm going to be decorating in a long time, so more than happy to pay extra for quality brushes that if I treat right, will last a long time, and should give a much better finish than say, for example, a £1 pack of 3 brushes from B&Q...

Will do a bit more forum reading on the rollers.. and will check out the various youtube videos for DT and the manufacturers ones themselves etc.

One last - going back to my original questions - any more advice on that Flat Matt vs Vinyl Matt for a ceiling??

Many thanks all


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:23 pm 
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Tom d'Angler wrote:
Quote:
Dulux trade is massively overpriced unless you've been noshing off your local supplier for years. Crown Trade is cheaper and better. Johnstone's is cheaper and better still.


A lot of people say that Dulux Trade is overpriced. I pay £37.69 inc VAT for 5l of tinted DT VM, and £23.34 of pbw DT Satinwood.

How do those prices compare to the likes of Crown Trade and Johnstone's?

(I agree the Dulux Trade Decorator Centres are massively overpriced... even with the discount they offered me for all of my custom, they were still around 12% dearer than what I currently pay.)


http://www.thepaintshed.com/products/johnstones-trade/johnstones-covaplus-matt/johnstone%27s-covaplus-matt-10l-(all-colours)/c-24/c-145/p-1552

Oh and Johnstones (PPG) can match F&B under licence too.

Paid £44.30 for 5L of Acrylic Durable Matt (iso1 scrub - equiv Diamond Matt) yesterday as a relatively new account at local johnstone's dec centre.



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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:08 am 
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Tom d'Angler wrote:
A lot of people say that Dulux Trade is overpriced. I pay £37.69 inc VAT for 5l of tinted DT VM, and £23.34 of pbw DT Satinwood.

How do those prices compare to the likes of Crown Trade and Johnstone's?


Crown 5L colour I get for £22.99 inc VAT at CDC (price-matched to Johnstones from an independent) Screwfix were doing Armstead QD Satin for £19.99 recently which the independent now price-matches.

Playing one supplier off another is always worth a shot IMO. DDC was the exception though I found, and largely staffed by helmets who must not have been getting paid enough to care about customers. They looked after the big spends, and just shafted everyone else. :sad:

dacoops wrote:
One last - going back to my original questions - any more advice on that Flat Matt vs Vinyl Matt for a ceiling??


It depends on how flat/bumpy the ceiling is and how directional the light in the room will be. Vinyl matt on ceilings is fine for the majority of jobs, but flat matt will give a more 'settled' and 'even' finish if the ceiling isn't in great shape. It's not a kidology product by any means and the lower sheen has its place. It's all a matter of taste I'd say. It won't be a huge difference between VM and FM in any event. :thumbright:

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