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 Post subject: £180 for this!!!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:30 am 
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Gosforth Handyman done a review on this on YouTube. It looks really good but I had to look twice at the price. Surely this is vastly overpriced?

https://www.axminster.co.uk/tso-products-grs-16-guide-rail-square-104493

I expect Kreg etc to make a much cheaper version in the very near future that's compatible with more track saws.


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 Post subject: Re: £180 for this!!!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:43 am 
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Surely they got the decimal point in the wrong place? Checked on the TSO site and it is $159 in the states. Seems a bit high to me too.


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 Post subject: Re: £180 for this!!!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:02 am 
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Specialist item, limited appeal, high price tag as others are unlikely to copy it.

Personally I am quite happy using my 12" speed square for that job. I might one day add some kind of mounting to fix it to a rail but it's so rare I need something like that I probably won't bother.


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 Post subject: Re: £180 for this!!!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:16 am 
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I emailed Kreg asking them if they had any plans to duplicate it :thumbright: .

I think there will be more demand as track saws become more popular.


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 Post subject: Re: £180 for this!!!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:50 am 
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https://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/Ins ... are-Metric £125 looks very similar



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 Post subject: Re: £180 for this!!!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:23 pm 
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Bob225 wrote:
https://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/Insta-Rail-Insta-Railsquarem-5055945264869-Rail--Track-Saw-Square-Metric £125 looks very similar


Well spotted but still a rip off imo at £125.


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 Post subject: Re: £180 for this!!!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:05 pm 
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Argyll wrote:
I emailed Kreg asking them if they had any plans to duplicate it :thumbright: .

I think there will be more demand as track saws become more popular.

In the USA Kreg have their own track system (and saw) which is not compatible with anyone else's. Somehow doubt that they'll be interested in supporting Festool's system

Argyll wrote:
Bob225 wrote:
https://www.ffx.co.uk/tools/product/Insta-Rail-Insta-Railsquarem-5055945264869-Rail--Track-Saw-Square-Metric £125 looks very similar

Well spotted but still a rip off imo at £125.

Rip off is relative to use, surely? I've been using the Insta square for about a year now. If you do a lot of sheet material cross cutting out on site it's actually well worth the money as it saves a lot of time - and is quite a bit smaller and cheaper than buying a Festool MFT/3 table. There are cheaper options available, such as the Palette Tools mk.2 guide square, available in Makita blue or Festool green.

Attachment:
Palette mk 2 Guide Square 001_01.jpg
Palette mk 2 Guide Square 001_01.jpg [ 66.3 KiB | Viewed 450 times ]


I have the "mk.1" version of this and it's actually not bad at the price and more than good enough (accurate) for carving up sheets for flooring, etc. Much quicker and more accurate than using a speed square and guide rail, cutting to "tick marks" (assuming that your sheets are square, which they aren't always), etc. If you're interested, search the forum and you'll find that I commented in detail about this item last summer

Attachment:
Palette 370 001_02.JPG
Palette 370 001_02.JPG [ 59.73 KiB | Viewed 452 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: £180 for this!!!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:23 pm 
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I frequent a few Facebook carpenters pages and a guy called frank Cochrane from Scotland has come up with rail squares which everyone seems to agree are the best out there.
Here’s a little clip of his invention.
http://youtu.be/EJTOCte9VuU

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 Post subject: Re: £180 for this!!!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:34 pm 
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search youtube for FS1400 there is a few home made ones

https://youtu.be/7CSBJW86Q_w

I can see why the prices are high as it a very niche, low volume product, they have to recoup the R&D costs

I use to make conversion cables for car audio I had £4-500 in connectors (some very hard to source), and hours in R&D, I made 50-70% per lead profit


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 Post subject: Re: £180 for this!!!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:32 pm 
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Nice looking bit of kit but even more expensive again :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: £180 for this!!!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:15 pm 
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This one looks like a cheaper option

https://www.screwfix.com/p/triton-ttsts ... 20mm/6316r

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 Post subject: Re: £180 for this!!!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:48 am 
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darrenba wrote:
This one looks like a cheaper option
https://www.screwfix.com/p/triton-ttsts ... 20mm/6316r

Attachment:
Triton TTSTS 001_01.jpg
Triton TTSTS 001_01.jpg [ 4.66 KiB | Viewed 390 times ]


How accurate is it, though? I was told that they aren't particularly accurate as a crosscut (90°) fence simply because there is slop in the bar which you insert into the groove on the underside of the rail (and 0.1mm slop translates into an inaccurate cut at 1.4 metres from the fence) - all the better squares register using the back edge of the fence and a spring clamp to ensure alignment. Always been a bit suspect of Triton having seen reviews of their dowel borer and routers which all leave something to be desired (speaking from a professional point of view, admittedly)

Festool make an angle guide for their system called the FS-KS combination bevel at circa £70 (if you look around):

Attachment:
Festool FS-KS Combination Bevel Guide 001_01.jpg
Festool FS-KS Combination Bevel Guide 001_01.jpg [ 98.87 KiB | Viewed 390 times ]


which is universally loathed because it isn't accurate enough.....

My feeling about this sort of item is that if you've spent £300 to £400 on a saw, £500 on a compliant vacuum and maybe £200 to £300 on rails (or £100 or so) then you should buy appropriately accurate accessories. Yes, I agree that £180 is completely OTT, but £130 (when it includes a pair of deep dog pegs) is far more palatable

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 Post subject: Re: £180 for this!!!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:12 am 
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Quote:
In the USA Kreg have their own track system (and saw) which is not compatible with anyone else's. Somehow doubt that they'll be interested in supporting Festool's system


Fair point and something I never considered :thumbleft:

But I wasn't looking for one that's compatible with the Festool. There's definitely an opportunity in the market for someone to make one that's compatible with others. Festool is way out of my price range and the price doesn't justify the use it would get from me.

In my opinion any thing like this should be priced around £40-£50. I cannot fathom how anything like this can be priced any more than this but this is just my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: £180 for this!!!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:55 pm 
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Argyll wrote:
In my opinion any thing like this should be priced around £40-£50. I cannot fathom how anything like this can be priced any more than this but this is just my opinion.

The Pallette I mentioned above actually is in the £40 to £50 bracket you find desirable (and is British-made to boot :thumbleft: ). When placed alongside the Insta square you really can see the difference in quality - the Pallette is a lower quality product made using lower grade materials, although it is still perfectly serviceable. It's sort of like the difference between a VW Polo eco model and a BMW 535 - they're both cars and they'll both get you there, however..... Almost anyone using a Festool (or Mafell, Makita, Bosch, etc) guided plunge saw system in trade will quickly find themselves owning 3 to 5 guide rails (or in real terms a £200 to £350 investment) and taken in that context I don't think that £125 for an Insta looks so bad, especially in view of the capability it delivers

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 Post subject: Re: £180 for this!!!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:42 am 
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steviejoiner74 wrote:
I frequent a few Facebook carpenters pages and a guy called frank Cochrane from Scotland has come up with rail squares which everyone seems to agree are the best out there.
Here’s a little clip of his invention.
http://youtu.be/EJTOCte9VuU


Stevie,

That ones £210 :shock:

I need to view one so I can see what the fuss is about.


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