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 Post subject: 110v site power supply.
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:30 am 
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With 110v site power supplies, what’s the easiest/cheapest way to ‘step-up’ to 240v ac?
No replies from H&S Johnnies please, I’ve got a Bronze Swimming Medal & fully conversant.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:35 am 
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Plug it into a 460V supply :scratch:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:42 am 
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You can buy step up transformers for about £100 quid or so.

Or swap the 230V plug for a socket and connect up a 110V transformer to the 110V site with a Jesus cord.


Last edited by OnlyMe on Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:10 am 
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OnlyMe wrote:
Plug it into a 460V supply :scratch:

:lol:

Borrow some one else's transformer and wire it in reverse.

But to power what? Many items of electronics use SMPS supplies which can take anything from 90V to 250V AC input - check the labels.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:49 pm 
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You can as said get step up transformers normally blue, as to using a second step down to step up it depends on the transformer, because the whole idea is to isolate trying to use them in reverse can cause over heating and large volt drop.

For small items you can get auto transformers, I would remove them from fluorescent lamps to run radios and the like, the old fluorescent lamps were really 230 volt with an auto transformer to step up, the auto transformer was normally wound off centre tap so 127 - 0 - 110.

Any transformer with duel input so you can select 110 or 230 volt can normally be used as an auto transformer. You simply don't use the secondary.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:00 pm 
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ericmark wrote:
You can as said get step up transformers normally blue, as to using a second step down to step up it depends on the transformer, because the whole idea is to isolate trying to use them in reverse can cause over heating and large volt drop.

For small items you can get auto transformers, I would remove them from fluorescent lamps to run radios and the like, the old fluorescent lamps were really 230 volt with an auto transformer to step up, the auto transformer was normally wound off centre tap so 127 - 0 - 110.

Any transformer with duel input so you can select 110 or 230 volt can normally be used as an auto transformer. You simply don't use the secondary.


I removed the transformer from a fluorescent lamp to run a radio on site but that’s all it would do. It wouldn’t even charge our batteries for the cordless drill.



For this message the author steviejoiner74 has received gratitude : Dickie
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:22 pm 
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I bought a gismo for about £30, can't remember what it's called (might be an inverter) it's fine for charging cordless batteries, (just as well cos that's why I bought it), but it only has an output of about 300w, so it would be useless for running 240v tools, but it does solve the age old problem of charging your batteries in the site canteen only to find on your return that they've been swapped for a duff one or maybe just unplugged two minutes after you plugged them in.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:37 pm 
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I have to ask, why do you want to change 110 to 230?
Although its easy to say just buy a 110 version of your "xyz" I can appreciate it costs more, but if it has an integral power supply it may be possible to change just that.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:57 pm 
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You can get an auto transformer any size you want, however those many in high quantity are likely cheaper, in the main 120 volt to 230 volt step up auto transformers are used to run UK appliances in the US and since a transformer is heavy and we travel by plane these are normally quite small.

There is a problem with using these with UK site transformers in that the output is 55 - 0 - 175 volt not 230 volt, so OK for Class II equipment but not class I equipment. So we tend to use lumps like this.
Image At £86 not really that expensive considering 3.3 kAV intermittent rating however that is a 30 amp input so you can see why 1.65 continuous that still needs 15 amp input so this is likely the largest step up you can buy off the shelf.

It also will not be RCD protected and the cut out is thermal only so although you could use when there is no electrical engineer on site, I would not allow there use without some sort of protection, except for very special cases.

In fact I don't like the brick step down transformer either, I feel they brake all safety rules and should be banned, they clearly remove and RCD protection, but with a 3 kW brick transformer they will likely supply 54 amp without tripping, i.e. 3000/55 so if there are leads plugged into leads you can get a direct short to earth which will not trip the supply until the insulation melts and wires touch closer to the transformer. The damaged caused by overload often goes undetected, the lead will still pass using a PAT tester but in use the damaged insulation will fail.

So site safety officers are between rock and hard place, rules say 63 volt to earth maximum but yellow bricks are dangerous clearly a fire risk, proper site transformers with MCB's on output are OK it is just the yellow brick, they are likely aware of there being a danger but safety officer may not fully understand where the danger comes from. So anything out of usual and they ban it just to be on the safe side.

So with say a high pressure hot wash you may want to use it both on 110 and 230 volt supply, so either transform up or transform down, since the 230 volt is cheaper transform up seems best option, since it has a transformer already which supplies 30,000 volt for the ignition one can hardly say one in safer than other, as long as the transformer to step up is bolted onto the device so it is considered integral then it brakes no rules.

I know he says
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No replies from H&S Johnnies please, I’ve got a Bronze Swimming Medal & fully conversant.

But it really does depend where it is used, as to if you can get away with it. Not talking about danger the 110 volt brick is dangerous to start with, what I am saying is getting away with it.

And your far more likely to get away with a device that looks as though designed for job than something which looks heath robinson.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:52 pm 
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ericmark wrote:
You can get an auto transformer any size you want, however those many in high quantity are likely cheaper, in the main 120 volt to 230 volt step up auto transformers are used to run UK appliances in the US and since a transformer is heavy and we travel by plane these are normally quite small.

There is a problem with using these with UK site transformers in that the output is 55 - 0 - 175 volt not 230 volt, so OK for Class II equipment but not class I equipment. So we tend to use lumps like this.
Image At £86 not really that expensive considering 3.3 kAV intermittent rating however that is a 30 amp input so you can see why 1.65 continuous that still needs 15 amp input so this is likely the largest step up you can buy off the shelf.



It also will not be RCD protected and the cut out is thermal only so although you could use when there is no electrical engineer on site, I would not allow there use without some sort of protection, except for very special cases.

In fact I don't like the brick step down transformer either, I feel they brake all safety rules and should be banned, they clearly remove and RCD protection, but with a 3 kW brick transformer they will likely supply 54 amp without tripping, i.e. 3000/55 so if there are leads plugged into leads you can get a direct short to earth which will not trip the supply until the insulation melts and wires touch closer to the transformer. The damaged caused by overload often goes undetected, the lead will still pass using a PAT tester but in use the damaged insulation will fail.

So site safety officers are between rock and hard place, rules say 63 volt to earth maximum but yellow bricks are dangerous clearly a fire risk, proper site transformers with MCB's on output are OK it is just the yellow brick, they are likely aware of there being a danger but safety officer may not fully understand where the danger comes from. So anything out of usual and they ban it just to be on the safe side.

So with say a high pressure hot wash you may want to use it both on 110 and 230 volt supply, so either transform up or transform down, since the 230 volt is cheaper transform up seems best option, since it has a transformer already which supplies 30,000 volt for the ignition one can hardly say one in safer than other, as long as the transformer to step up is bolted onto the device so it is considered integral then it brakes no rules.

I know he says
Quote:
No replies from H&S Johnnies please, I’ve got a Bronze Swimming Medal & fully conversant.

But it really does depend where it is used, as to if you can get away with it. Not talking about danger the 110 volt brick is dangerous to start with, what I am saying is getting away with it.

And your far more likely to get away with a device that looks as though designed for job than something which looks heath robinson.


Yawn.........yawn!!! Yeah, thanks for that Earwick.. I think :roll:

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:59 pm 
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But what's it for?

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Which is correct? Metre or Meter? Click the link. to find out more.

No such thing as "Thou shalt put this wire here, Thou shalt put that wire there" .............Take a picture BEFORE you do the job.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:00 pm 
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someone-else wrote:
I have to ask, why do you want to change 110 to 230?



Why not?

Maybe to prove it can be done and get one over the H&S idiots?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:18 pm 
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Still same question, why change 110 to 230.

Yes we know it can be done, but to most it would be a pointless exercise, so to me that suggests that Dickie has some thing else in mind. But .....................what?

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Which is correct? Metre or Meter? Click the link. to find out more.

No such thing as "Thou shalt put this wire here, Thou shalt put that wire there" .............Take a picture BEFORE you do the job.

If gloom had a voice, it would be me. :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:21 pm 
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someone-else wrote:
Still same question, why change 110 to 230.

Yes we know it can be done, but to most it would be a pointless exercise, so to me that suggests that Dickie has some thing else in mind. But .....................what?


So you can use your 240 gear on site I’m thinking?



For this message the author steviejoiner74 has received gratitude : Dickie
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:43 pm 
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steviejoiner74 wrote:
So you can use your 240 gear on site I’m thinking?


But you know as well as I do, you are not allowed to use 240v kit on site, but that's going down the H & S route.

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Take it easy, a forum is only a collection of opinions. Above, are mine.

Which is correct? Metre or Meter? Click the link. to find out more.

No such thing as "Thou shalt put this wire here, Thou shalt put that wire there" .............Take a picture BEFORE you do the job.

If gloom had a voice, it would be me. :mrgreen:

:idea1: How to post a picture on this forum Click here


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